Rampers Overpaid

[shroomwell]

I am sick of hearing that pilots are overpaid! People don't understand the job we do. You need a college degree to be competitive and then need all the additional training to get your ratings, and then multiple years of work experience to get a job with an airline. Then we are away from home for nearly half the month. In addition we need to take a test twice a year and be medically fit.

Meanwhile Joe Schmo with no high school diploma can get a ramper job with a major airline, and in few years he will be making more than quite a few pilots for throwing bags in the back of an airplane and goes home to his family evernight. WTF is wrong with this picture. The first cost the major airlines need to cut is the rampers. Pilots at Jetblue and Southwest make comparable wages. The difference in the bottomline is that the rampers at JB and SWA make a fair wage for their job. Not a ridiculous union wage that they make at the Legacy carriers.

Not one ramper anywhere should make more money than the highly trained pilots. Our union is the worst in history. This is a F_upped world we live in.

Just my little rant.

 

[AA717driver]

Before the AA buyout, there were numerous rampers at TWA making over $50k/year. I love the IAM... TC

 

[Airpiraterob]

to pay union wage for minimum wage work........it just dosent work at all in the long run.

not many of em are there for the job...theyre there for the money and dont care if the planes on time or not. thought is "theyre there....the company now owes them something just for showing up."

so there a plane all hooked up to the tug...where was it....in pit?..anyway, theyre ready to go. right before they push, the ramper informs the crew that theres a 15 minute wash-up clause in his contract and then just hops off the tug...and goes inside....leaves them all alone....and thats it.

(guaranteed he never washed up and just left right to his car and got paid for all that 15 minutes.)

 

[rumpletumbler]

I worked for Lane Aviation in CMH a LONG time ago. I was very much into partying (off work) but these guys were ridiculous. Among other things I recall sitting in tug with a guy pulling back a planeload of folks and he is hitting his flask on the way back. The next thing was drinking and smoking dope in airplanes that were being cleaned out. Everyone just hanging out sitting in the cockpit/cabin of 737's smoking weed etc. I was asked to join "the team" and when I refused I was quickly terminated.

 

[PA-44Typed]

Go do some research before you make a stupid comment like that. You will find that a majority of ramp agents make 14k to 28k a year. Having myself worked as a “ramper” my information is 1st hand. I really doubt that anyone on the ramp level besides the Ramp manager is making anywhere near 50K/year.

 

[EngineOut]

Go do some research before you make a stupid comment like that. You will find that a majority of ramp agents make 14k to 28k a year. Having myself worked as a “ramper” my information is 1st hand. I really doubt that anyone on the ramp level besides the Ramp manager is making anywhere near 50K/year.

He specifically mentioned legacy carriers.

I used to smash bags at AA...our last contract (prior to concessions) had an 11 year top out @ $23/hour ($46,000/yr). That doesn't even include all the OT you can eat, paid lunches, penalty hours, 13 (I think) paid holidays at double-time and a half, etc. There were several folks in the system who pulled in more than $100,000 per year, although they were always at the airport.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I really doubt that anyone on the ramp level besides the Ramp manager is making anywhere near 50K/year.

Okay, it appears the USAirways crew in CLE was making that much. If you believe the story as they tell it, they were "downgraded" from a USAirways station to an "Express station" and took a 40-45% pay cut for the privilege of keeping their jobs.

I didn't ask them what the new payscale was, but then found it written on the dry erase board in their break room... $13.75/hr. And no, I don't know what kind of longevity you needed to make that amount. But... If you figure a 2000hr year, that's about $27,500/yr.

But again, that's after a near-50% paycut. Do your own math to figure out what these guys were making before.

 

[JediNein]

Hmmm...
-Rotating split shifts work 2 hours starting 4:30 AM return at 4:30 PM work 'til 11PM, later for off-sked ops.
-Fighting pax bags from id!ots that cram every piece of stuff they own into three bags... I want my shoulder back!
-Cleaning barf bags and who knows what out of seatback pockets.....

My station was non-union, so we didn't lose wages to union dues ($6.95 an hour starting -- CA min wage). Even if you worked 35+ hours a week you were considered part-time and ineligible to vote in union organizations anyway.

Yep, those durn overpaid rampers!

Next?

 

[capt. megadeth]

My friend's boyfriend works at SWA as a ramper and she says that with overtime he makes $55,000 a year. Now, I don't see anything wrong with that if you are a hard worker. If a ramper does their share of the job they do work their a$$ off. Not to mention that you can hurt yourself throwing bags and then you can't work at all. What is wrong with the picture is that a commuter FO can't make that even with overtime.

 

[pilotyip]

Do not fly for the money

So for all those under paid regional F/O's here is chance to make some real money.

 

[nosehair]

Wa-a-a-ah !! Those "bag-monkeys" are makin' more than me!! Wa-a-a-a !! Look at me! I'm the pretty one, all sittin' up here in my neat uniform with the shoulder boards, n' everything, 'n surrounded by a Grand Canyon of clocks & watches ! It's not fair!! W-a-a-a-ahh !!!

 

[capt. megadeth]

"Wa-a-a-ah !! Those "bag-monkeys" are makin' more than me!! Wa-a-a-a !! Look at me! I'm the pretty one, all sittin' up here in my neat uniform with the shoulder boards, n' everything, 'n surrounded by a Grand Canyon of clocks & watches ! It's not fair!! W-a-a-a-ahh !!!"

Since you are a flight instructor and still have stars in your eyes, I'll give you a break. Just wait....fly for a commuter for 5+ years making di%k diddly watching all those rampers making overtime while you are sitting looking all pretty for free because scheduling added another turn....we'll see who is whining then.

 

[Flic1]

Yeah, but how many rampers are lined up willing to work for free or for dirt wages like there are pilots??

 

[pilotyip]

True story DAL

A Navy buddy of mine went to work for DAL in 1973. In 1974 he got bumped out of the cockpit during a reduction in the pilot force. Back then DAL had a no lay off policy for pilots. They would offer you a job somewhere else in the company. He became a baggage smasher. In the two years he was out of the cockpit, he became a shift supervisor. When he was called back to the FE panel on the DC-8, he took a major pay cut from his baggage smashing job.

 

[A Squared]

Ahhh yes, the green-eyed monster* rears it's ugly head.

Who cares what rampers are making, if the have such a sweet deal, why don't you sign up? It's nothing short of inane to compare the salaries of rampers at a legacy major (or even SWA) to pilot pay at bottom feeder regionals. It should not be necessary (but apparently is) to point out that the airlines which pay thier rampers 50k/anum are paying their pilots 2-4 times as much. Or perhaps the point is that the lowest pilot *anywhere* should be making more than the highest piad ramper *anywhere*? How about spending a little less energy worrying and stewing and wringing your hands about what other people are making?

*for the more literal among us, that's jealousy,

 

[capt. megadeth]

Flic1,
You got a really good point there.

 

[jackotron]

I don't know what ramp is paying 50k, but SkyWest was paying me $8.50 an hour. Now I don't know how your math is but working 40 hours a week 50 weeks of the year works out to a gross pay of 17k. I have to admit, you don't need to be to terribly smart to work the ramp, but geeze, it's not that great of pay. Mesa's (not that mesa really counts) rampers get twice the work load for a dollar less (probably an indication of their "on-time" performance).

It is not the rampers fault that he is being paid 17k and the Greatlakes 1st year FO gets 13.5k. The "highly-trained pilot" can always find a job elsewhere if he/she does not like it.

But in all fairness, pilots do not get paid enough regardless of what the ramp is pulling.

 

[Tripower455]

I've worked for several of the legacy airlines commuters, and witnessed all of the abuse that the union rampers did.

SWA rampers are a stark contrast to those guys....... I was amazed the first time we turned a 737 in 10 minutes. Heck, at JFK, it would take over an hour to turn an ATR!

Whatever the SWA rampers make is not enough, IMHO. They bust their butts out there!

 

[A Squared]

I've worked for several of the legacy airlines commuters, and witnessed all of the abuse that the union rampers did.

Yeah, that's probably true. very frequently the culture within a union will evolve in a way that results in obscene abuses. I worked for a local power ultility a few years back. It was represented by IBEW, and it was an eye opener working there. It was nothing short of nauseating seeing some of the crap that my "brothers" pulled. I was generally pro-union before that, and I left there significantly cooled on the idea of unions. That's not to say that I'm anti union, but I think that union has an obligation to police itself, not defend it's members regardless of how outrageous and flagrant thier offenses are. I don't see that much.

 

[Tripower455]

Yeah, that's probably true. very frequently the culture within a union will evolve in a way that results in obscene abuses. I worked for a local power ultility a few years back. It was represented by IBEW, and it was an eye opener working there. It was nothing short of nauseating seeing some of the crap that my "brothers" pulled. I was generally pro-union before that, and I left there significantly cooled on the idea of unions. That's not to say that I'm anti union, but I think that union has an obligation to police itself, not defend it's members regardless of how outrageous and flagrant thier offenses are. I don't see that much.

Well, SWA's rampers are unionized...... IMHO, the attitude of the company sets the precedence. The response of the unions are to do as little as possible and get as much for it. It becomes a pissing contest between management and the unions, which ends up bad for everyone.

 

[U of I Tweak]

Don't generalize

Hey, I can't speak for anywhere but the Mesaba station in CMI. I don't expect those of you flying who've never worked ramp really have the right to speak intelligently about it at all. I'm a hard working ramp worker....After a year of part time work I'm making 9.36 an hour. I think after another year I'll be up somewhere close to 10, and maybe the high 10s the year after that. I'm working almost 30 hours a week while going to school....it averages to just about $1000 a month before taxes. Is it a lot? In my eyes it isn't too bad. It sure as hell beats what I could make working retail or fast food or other typical part time jobs. And it's much more fun. I bust my butt to get the plane turned on time, and I enjoy doing it.

Complaining about the guy whose job tops out at $50,000 is retarded. Without him, your plane doesn't fly. Unless you're planning on getting out and loading the bags yourself. You don't play the guy quality money, then quality employees don't show up and you have a shoddy airline. If pilots (and this isn't a knock against them, I'm working towards it eventually) didn't flock to jobs that don't pay their worth, you wouldn't be sitting around complaining about the fact that the ramper makes more than you. And hey....if you change your mind...we have an opening for a manager...I don't know for sure what it pays...but somewhere in the order of 20-25K is my best guess.

Anyway, don't get on this board and blindly accuse me of not being worth what I earn. That's what you did by grouping all rampers into the one lazy group of overpaid, under-educated idiots. Most of the pilots that fly into CMI have thanked us for our hard work and quick turns. They appreciate us, and I feel bad for the rampers that work your planes, because you obviously don't appreciate them.

By the way shroom, I too am tired about hearing about overpaid pilots. But just because you and your self admitted crappy union allowed you to be grossly underpaid, doesn't mean that we should make less.

 

[A Squared]

Well, SWA's rampers are unionized...... IMHO, the attitude of the company sets the precedence. The response of the unions are to do as little as possible and get as much for it. It becomes a pissing contest between management and the unions, which ends up bad for everyone.

Yeah, I know SWA's unionized. I think that you missed my point. My point was not that unions *always* result in laziness and abuses, but that *frequently* (look it up in the dictionary, it is not a synonym for always) there are abuses with a excessively strong union. It has much to do with the culture of the union, and the culture the company also.

 

[Tripower455]

Yeah, I know SWA's unionized. I think that you missed my point. My point was not that unions *always* result in laziness and abuses, but that *frequently* (look it up in the dictionary, it is not a synonym for always) there are abuses with a excessively strong union. It has much to do with the culture of the union, and the culture the company also.

I was actually agreeing with you... I was a bit distracted when I was typing the response to you!

I was validating your point, by using SWAs rampers as an example that you can have unionized labor, and not have the same BS that you get with many of the legacy guys. This is due to a good working relationship between the company and the unions.

 

[A Squared]

I was actually agreeing with you... I was a bit distracted when I was typing the response to you!.

Ahh, OK, the limits of the written word

This is due to a good working relationship between the company and the unions.

Yeah, and that is of course a two way street. From the outside, looking in, it seems to me that others, both management teams and unions could learn a little form SWA. Not to say it's a utopian paradise, but there seems to be a higher proprotion of everyong pulling in the same direction rather than the opposite direction.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

"Wa-a-a-ah !! Those "bag-monkeys" are makin' more than me!! Wa-a-a-a !! Look at me! I'm the pretty one, all sittin' up here in my neat uniform with the shoulder boards, n' everything, 'n surrounded by a Grand Canyon of clocks & watches ! It's not fair!! W-a-a-a-ahh !!!"

Since you are a flight instructor and still have stars in your eyes, I'll give you a break. Just wait....fly for a commuter for 5+ years making di%k diddly watching all those rampers making overtime while you are sitting looking all pretty for free because scheduling added another turn....we'll see who is whining then.

Since you took offense at his comment..........We'll assume that he accurately depicted you.

I don't know about you but I have a lot of friends that are now professional resume' writers. I consider myself fortunate that I still get paid "well enough" to do what I love to do.
Personally, I'm not worried about the bag-smashers, the bug-washers, the line-guys, the mechanics, crash crew,the ATC's, the NTSB, the TSA,the FAA, the Flight Attendants, the Caterers, the Ramp Sweepers, that Indian guy at the Duty Free or even.....the SkyCap Mafia. Just keep giving me a check on Friday!

 

[AA717driver]

I wouldn't have complained if the rampers at TWA were busting their butts. They weren't.

Their scam(one of them) was to coordinate with their buddies and bid opposite days off. Then, because the airlines are always short-staffed on the ramp, the first guy would call off sick. The supervisor would call around to all the guys on days off to see if anyone would come in for straight time. No takers. Then, the sup would offer time and a half. No takers. Double time. The designated ramper would then take the overtime. They even divvied up the holidays. Triple time.

The next day, a different guy would call in sick. And so on... Everyone got their share.

No I wouldn't want their job. But I don't have to like them scamming the company AND working at a snail's pace. They had 49 minutes to turn a plane at the hub. No matter how late it was, they took 49 minutes. (Yes, I know if they beat the clock, the company would look at that and cut their turn times down. But they could at least work the really late flights faster.)

Oh, well, it's done now. But it did exist.

Congrats, SWA, on having rampers that will bust their butts. Buy them a case of beer every so often. They deserve it.TC

 

[Tripower455]

Speaking of TWA rampers, I wonder if Rod Stewart ever went over to AA?

 

[shroomwell]

Just to clarify a few things. I was talking specificalluy about Legacy carriers rampers. The guys who work the ramp at the commuter and some LCC are hard working and in some cases underpaid. The real point I was trying to make is, both Legacy and Commuter rampers essentially do the same job, however one is paid much more money than the other. If Legacy rampers were paid what Commuter rampers made it could make a significant impact on the Bottom Line of all these struggling airlines.

Oh, and commuters pilots are underpaid, thanks ALPA for all your harwork, not.

 

[Gatorman]

No Whinning!!!

I am so glad to see a board like this one finally, got real tired of reading about FLOPSWIFE and NETJETWIFE over on the Fractional Message Board, whinning about the husbands crappy jobs and how they are being done wrong. I have not seen YOU down at the soup kitchen, smelling like beer and piss, sleeping under the bridge.

I think that unless they want to dump their own LAVs, tow their own planes, and change the next 'almost worn out' tires, they should shut up and sit at the pointy end of the bus with all the windows.

Maybe the grease monkeys and rampers are not as dumb as you might think. Without a 'degree' or thousands of hours flying and still pulling down some good money.....geesh you guys make me sick of the whinning.
In over 13 years of fixing aircraft only once have I ever experienced a chief pilot 'help' with some of the work on 'his' aircraft.

If you got a paycheck and it cashed be glad that you got it. If you get called back to do it again, don't complain about the pay - you might not get asked to come back the next time. (whinner)

 

[squakalt]

Boo Hoo

Change careers, become a ramper.