Ramp Check!

[i'mbatman]

Hi,
I got ramped checked by a MX inspector today...he wrote down my name and CFI # and the same with my student....what are my rights if this happens again and what can happen at this point? He found a loose fuel placard in my aircraft and an arm rest that was improperly installed.......should i be worried? HELP!

 

[bobbysamd]

Ramp check

I wouldn't worry.....yet. It's time to, well, be concerned if a "helpful" FAA letter arrives in your mailbox suggesting that you drop by for a friendly visit and/or the same friendly fed calls with the same suggestion.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES respond to the letter yourself and do not let yourself be intimidated. THAT DAY, get legal advice. You can also call AOPA for advice if you are a member.

Hope that helps. Chances are nothing will happen. In any event, keep us posted.

 

[TDTURBO]

This should have been posted in YGBSM. A lose fuel placard and an improperly installed armrest?

Can you say FAA loser boy? Give me a break.

 

[airline mission]

What airport were you checked on?

 

[JCJ]

send a NASA (ASRS) report

 

[PennEagle]

NASA Report?

Don't send a NASA report .... as is posted elsewhere, these forms are for actions by pilots or controllers that were " inadvertant and non-deliberate".

 

[flywithastick]

Re: Ramp check

You can also call AOPA for advice if you are a member.

You *are* an AOPA member, right batman?!

 

[citdrver]

Batman,

First of all didnt you tell him you were Batman, and to please address all concerns to the office of Bruce Wayne? Also that you and the boy wonder have bigger fish to fry...like the darn JOKER!

Seriously, the main thing for you is that you inform your boss or director of maintenance or any mechanic for that matter and the problems are addressed and corected. The FAA inspector is justifying his exsitence by generating paperwork that he has been out in the field making the skies safe! The major thing is not to get ramped again by the same guy and have the same discrepencies..that pisses them off. Also inform the mechanic or your boss of the FAA ramp check so that all the maintenance can be properly documented for his inspection, if he chooses to do a follow up. As for you, follow Booby's advice, hang tight. If they wanted to mess with you. you will know sooner than later. AOPA is your best defense for that, I am still in thier legal plan (signed up when I got my CFI) and will always be, unless I get me one of them cool union jobs.

Dont Sweat it, and tell Robin I said Hello!

 

[boxcar]

You guys are paranoid! If the inspector considered the discrepencies serious enough to affect airworthiness, he/she would have issued a written statement (Condition Notice) saying the discrepencies needed to be fixed before further flight. In the absence of that, he/she was trying to be helpful by pointing out minor gripes that might have occured inflight or were missed during preflight. No matter how serious the problems were, in order to process a violation the inspector must prove the discrepencies existed during the time the airplane was flown. This is hard to do and isn't worth the time and trouble unless you're on their s**t list.

 

[JediNein]

"Check Six"

The FAA Safety Program Manager sent my home district notice that ramp checks of general aviation, especially flight training operations, were going to be much more frequent this year. The SPM of the office where I do my flight instruction concurs, stating that the directive came from on high. Terrorists, an incredible training accident rate (3 MEIs seriously injured or killed along with their students, totalling 3 aircraft in the last three weeks in our area alone + 3 applicants on checkrides landing gear up), and general "prove that we are doing something" are the causes.

If your inspector/SPM approaches your school and asks them to do a PACE inspection, pick your best airplane, let your mechanic have first shot, corral the flight instructors and a handful of students, and have at it. PACE has no teeth and is a way to satisfy the "ramp check" requirement/quota while remaining on the good list. If problems are found, get them corrected now, not when violations and certificates are hanging in the balance. A fuel placard is $2.10, compare that to the cost of an enforcement action.

Below is a checklist Gene Whitt put together from one of his encounters with a ramp check. It makes a great checklist for any ramp check, or for purchasing an aircraft.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

An FAA Ramp Inspection Checklist
The Pilot (9 items)
FAR 61.3 & 61.5
1. Pilot certificate
2. Medical certificate class and date
3. Type of ratings by category
4. Airplane class rating
5. Rotorcraft class rating
6. Type of rating
7. Lighter-than-air rating
8. Instrument rating
a. Airplane
b. Helicopter
FAR 61.25 Change of name or address

Aircraft Inspection (14 items)
1. Placarding
2. Obvious defects
3. Airworthiness Certificate
4. Registration
5. N marking correct
6. Annual inspection
7. Transponder date
8. Compass card
9. Minimum equipment list
10. Flight manual
11. AD current
12. ELT date
13. Data plates
14. Weight and Balance

Airworthy (Definition)
1) The aircraft must conform to its type certificate
a. When aircraft configuration and the components installed are
consistent with …all information that is part of the type certificate.
2) The aircraft must be in condition for safe operation.
a. Aircraft relative to wear and deterioration (examples of damage)

Records (16 items)
1. Registration is current and in aircraft. CFR 91.9
2. Airworthiness certificate in aircraft CFR 91.203(a)
3. Verify A&PI certificate number CFR 63.91
4. Current weight and balance 23.1581, 91.9
5. All AD's current in maintenance records CFR 23.23, 23.1519
6. Last annual completed: CFR 43.11 & 91.417
a. Date
b. CFR 65.91 Name and certificate number.
c. 145 repair station sign off date and station number
7. Annual Inspection 43.11 & 91.417
a. Total time
b. Description of work done
c. Date complete
d. IA signature and certification number
8. Last 100-hour inspection
a. 145 Repair station signoff date and station number CFR 43.3/51/57
b. A & P date and certification number CFR 43.15, 65.85, 91.409
9. A&P/IA signature CFR 43.11 & 91.409
10. Approved flight manual up-to-date before 03-1-1979 CFR
21.5/23.1591, 91.9
11. Equipment list current and in aircraft CFR 23.29 & 91.9
12, Flight manual of POH current after 03-1-1979 w/revision number and date CFR 21.5/23.1581, 91.9
13. Alterations IAW approved STC/TSO/PMA/field approval of other FAA data/337s CFR 21.97/101/113
14.Maintenance records for engine, airframe and propeller CFR 91.417
15. FAA-accepted instructions for continued airworthiness (ICAW for form 337s) and FAA -accepted maintenance manuals. Per FAR 21.31, 21.50, 21.1529,
16. Annual/100 hour inspection checklist owner gets copy CFR 43.15 (c)

In my conversation with the FAA source of this checklist, I was told
that getting through the foregoing meant that the remaining six pages were unlikely to be a problem. It doesn't look that way to me.

Cockpit Inspection (39 items)
1. Instruments and placards are correctly located per POH or T/C CFR
23.1541-1567, 91.9
2. INOP placards
a. INOP instruments removed
b. Equipment list up-dated
c. Maintenance record entry.
3. Instrument range markings: CFR 91.205/405(d) & CFR 23.1322, CFR
23.1541
a. Altimeter
b. Fuel pressure
c. Fuel quantity
d. Oil pressure
e. Oil temperature
f. Ammeter
g. Heading indicator
h. Vertical speed indicator
i. Turn and bank
j. Gear indicator
4. Compass card is there and legible CFR 23.1547 & 25.1547
5. Additional instruments not on equipment list or 337
6. Type of clock installed original analog or digital working AC 20-94
7. Nav radio P/N 1 and P/N 2
8. Conforms to type certificate (TC) per POH (see 5 & 6 above)
9. Check seat belts for stitching, cuts or worn CFR 91.107 & 23.785
10. Seat belts proper storage and marking TSO-22 7 23.785
11. Seat belts plastic locking ring missing front and back seats TSO-22, CFR 45.14
12. TSO-22 marking on seatbelts CFR 45l.15, CFR 91.205(b)(13,14)
13. Shoulder harness required after July 18, 1978 CFR 23.785(g)(1)
14. Seat rail holes elongated requires AD check CFR39
15. Worn seat material CFR 25.853 for a CAR-3.388 aircraft Part 91 & 23.853, AC 43.13 -1B Para 9-61
16. New Interior material certificates CAR-3.388 & CFR 23.853/25.853
17. Interior worn and if new has certification sheets (Has interior been altered or changed?)
CFR 21.303/43.11
18. Cockpit fuel smell CFR 23.863
19. Data plate information matches registration FAR 45.11/13 & 47.3
20. Intercom jack, how many, any extra and required Form 337
21. Fire extinguisher gauge
22. Oxygen bottle AC 43.13-1b para 9-51
23. Instrument filter covers installed
24. Windows stop-drilled, cracked, or crazed CFR 23.775
25. Seat back locks broken CFR 23.785
26. Flap, gear and other knobs installed CFR 23.781
27. Yoke chain safety wired or loose CFR 43
28. Electrical wiring more than 1/2 inch of slack CFR 43.13 1B para
11-118
29. Electrical wiring clamps/marking as required AC43.13-1B sec.11
30. Ty-wraps on items of mass in the cabin CFR 23.561
31. Loose wires under the dash not clamped CFR 23.1351
32. General cleanliness and loose equipment 23. 1301
33. Fuel selector moves to all positions and placarded
34. Oxygen system and supply condition CFR 23.l144 thru 1453
35. Battery vented overboard 23.1353 & AC 43.13-1B para 11-22
36. Fire extinguishing agent CFR 23.1197
37. Cockpit control knob shape CFR 23.781
38. Engine control proper installation and operation CFR 23.1141
39. Brake master cylinder leaking, check left/right CFR 23.735

Aircraft Exterior Inspection (34 items)
1. Nationality and registration marks per FAR 45.29. 3-inch markings per Jan1, 1983 and repaint
Over 30 years 2 or 12 inch CFR 45.22(b)
2. Fuel placards on left and right CFR 45.22(b)
3. Fairing cracked, hardware missing CFR 24.607, CFR 23.1193
4. Tire condition, wear and cuts AC 34.13 para 9-14
5. Landing gear struts condition AC 43.13 para 9-2/4
6. Landing gear extension AC 43.13 para 9-2/4
7. Landing gear farings condition CFR 23.607, CFR 23.1193
8. Brake pads and line conditions CFR 23.735
9. Wing dents, cracks, rivets, corrosion lights CFR 23.1385
10. Flap cracks, loose hardware, installation, stop-drilled, cracks CFR 23.655/697
11. Fuel vent direction CFR 23.975
12. Aileron cracks, loose hardware, installation cable rigging loose,
annual/100 hour inspection
CFR 23.655/685/689
13. Deicer boot condition worn, holes, debonded CFR 23.1416/1419
14. Static ports no paint, clear CFR 23l.13l25
15. Pitot tube hole not plugged and last inspection date. CFR 23.1325
15, Rudder movement, bearings, racks, repairs CFR 23.685
16. Cable rigging tensiometer test every 100 hours/ annual CFR 23.589
17. Electrical bonding strap condition CFR 23.867
18. Rotating beacon installation, corrects/doubler after 08-11-71 CFR 23.1401
19. Anticollision light system CFR 91.209(b)/CFR 23.1401
20. Navigation lights proper color CFR 23.1385-1399
21. Elevator torque tube adapter, rivets condition CFR 23.675
22. Horizontal stabilizer cracks, rivets, installation, safetied,
stop-drill cracks, stops CFR 23.571, 23.675
23. Door latches and locks, sprung, seals worn CFR 2l3l.1557
24. Windscreen clear, scratches, racks, CFR23.775
25. Antenna installation, doublers per 43.13 2A, CFR 23.571/572
26. Fabric covered aircraft condition AC 43.13-B chapter 2
27. Emergency exit placards CFR 23.15l57(d)
28. ATC transponder FAR 91.413 date and 24 calendar month check
29. ELT TSO-C91a/TSO-C126 12 month check
30. Altimeter test CFR 91.411 24 month check
31. Mirrors on wings require form 337
32. Landing light covers cracked, missing hardware
33. Landing gear retraction test CFR 23.l479
34. Emergency gear extension performed CFR 23.479

 

[JediNein]

Engine Inspection (Reference: CFR 23 Subpart E powerplant) (39 items)
1. Engine data plates matches type certificate CFR 45.13
2. Proper engine installed per type certificate or STC CFR 23.901
3. Engine/propeller per type certificate of STC CFR 43
4. Certification of instruments and engine accessories installed with 337's CFR 4l5.15/ 23.1305/ 23.1543/ 23.1309/ 23.
5. Engine cowl loose/missing hardware by location CFR 23.1193
6. Firewall bent, racked or missing fasteners CFR l23.1191
7. Engine mount structure for cracks, dents and condition CFR 23.901
8. Engine shock mount for cracks, worn, condition 23.901
9. Flex tubing condition CFR 23.1183
10. Clamps installation and type CFR 23.993
11. Engine oil leaking (location) CFR 43
12. STC for air filter bracket if installed & Form 337 CFR 43
13. Condition of baffle seals and installation and type of material
14. Propeller seal leaking CFR 23.907
15. Propeller clearance CFR 23.925
16. Propeller for nicks, cracks, and damage AC 43.13-2B para 8-73
17. Propeller spinner for cracks or missing screws (none allowed), nuts safety wired. Service letter reference
18. Propeller grinding on rotation AC43.13-1B para 8-2 (c)(2)
19. Propeller nuts properly torqued CFR Appendix D
20. Wire chafing, fuel lines, no wires under fuel lines AC43.13-1B
21. Electrical wire maximum 1/2-inch slack between supports AC43.13-1B
figure 11.9
22. Engine/electric fuel pump and wiring condition
23. Ignition harness condition
24. Starter ring condition of teeth
25. Alternator/generator drive belts condition
26. Cracked cylinder fins and rocker cover leaks (locations)
27. Exhaust system cracks, defects and installation (location)CFR
23.1121
28. Muffler cracks or leaks pressure tested CFR 23.1121
29. Carburetor heat box condition of holes. proper hardware, screws and nuts CFR 23.1121
30. Engine controls safetied and checked for travel AC 43.13-1B para 7-122 thru 127
31. Injection fuel lines checked. Recurring AD at 100 hours CFR 39
32. Fuel bowl leak CFR 23.999
33. Fuel lines condition, movement/clamping CFR 23.993 & AC 43.13-1B para 8-31
34. Carburetor security, throttle arm/ bushings condition
35. Crankcase for cracks, leaks and security of seam bolts
36. Differential compression test, 80psi/60 psi cylinder CFR 43 appendix D & AC 43.13-1B
paragraph 8-14 25% difference means problems
37. Vacuum pump lines, clamps, condition
38. Supercharger overall condition
39 Oil filter opening placard CFR 23.1557(c) (2)

Aircraft Records and Owner Responsibilities (6 items)
1. Have the aircraft inspected CFR 91 subpart E
2. Owner SHALL insure appropriate maintenance entries are recorded CFF 91.405(b) & 43.9/11
3. Receive a copy of any form 337 for maintenance performed on aircraft CFR 43 appendix B (a)(2)
4. Work performed by persons authorized CFR 91.405
5. Between inspections discrepancies repaired CFR 91.405
6. Keep records until work is repeated or superseded by other work or for 1 year after the work is performed CFR 91.4l17(b)(1)

Aircraft Inspection (23 items)
Some of reported items were found on new and low time aircraft that verifies the importance of a thorough pre-flight

--Aileron control cable not over pulley
--Aileron cable improperly installed in bellcrank - cable retaining pin was installed
--Bolts loose on the vertical and horizontal stabilizer fin attachments
--Broken and cracked electrical terminals
--Control cable turnbuckles not sifted
--Flap follow-up cable chafing on brake line
--Foreign items in fuel cells/tanks
--Fuel lines twisted, bent, kinked thus obstructing flow
--Fuel lines chafing due to inadequate clamping
--Incorrect propeller bolts installed
--Jam nuts drilled but no safety wire installed
--Lock clips missing from control cable turnbuckles
--Loose rivets in horizontal stabilizer leading edge
--Main wheel tires do not clear wheel bays
--Numerous drill chuck marks in aft face of pressure bulkhead. Required replacement.
--Oil lines leaking at connections
--Primer line "T" fitting not installed
--Propeller blade retention ferrules under torqued
--Right elevator trim cable wrapped around right primary rudder control cable
--Rivet holes drilled but rivets not installed in several different
areas
--Rudder cable bellcrank attachment bolts loose
--Rudder cable bolts fitted upside down
--Unreliable fuel quantity indications
______________________________

 

[FlyinT]

Ramp Check

I had the easiest ramp check ever the other day. I pulled up on the ramp, the FAA Inspector was waiting! He conducted the outside check as the Passengers were deplaning. Then came aboard to ask for my certificates. I asked if this would take long as we wanted to go to Lunch. !! Pasta Day at the Delta Cafeteria!!!!!!! He finished and then gave us a ride to the the Terminal - What a guy! Come check me again when I need a ride to lunch.

 

[JCJ]

Yes you should file an ASRS/NASA report

If you report to ASRS, then if you get a letter from the FAA in a few days charging you with operating or instructing in an unairworthy airplane. you will have as one of our options the opportunity to escape any certificate action. Your student should file one as well.

It would be complete bull$hit for you to be cited for this, but there is the occasional FAA guy with an attitude and no sense of humor or common sense. Hopefully that wont be the case with your situation but if it is you have another tool to use - all for the price of a postage stamp

And of course if someone alleged that you operated an unairworthy airplane, I am certain that your alleged transgression was " inadvertant and non-deliberate" - therefore I do suggest you send a ASRS form

 

[Frank Bama]

Hi, I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help!

 

[El Cid Av8or]

Re: "Check Six"

...stating that the directive came from on high. Terrorists, an incredible training accident rate (3 MEIs seriously injured or killed along with their students, totalling 3 aircraft in the last three weeks in our area alone + 3 applicants on checkrides landing gear up), and general "prove that we are doing something" are the causes.

What are they putting in the air where you live? That seems like an abnormally high number of accidents/incidences for a specific area. The 3 gear-up landings on checkrides is what really has me puzzled. Is the examiner too intimidating or something?

P.S. Thanks for the sample ramp check checklist. That's a big help on what to really expect. I'm not surprised that they are stepping up the number of these checks due to a number of reasons.

 

[100LL... Again!]

JediNein-

Were all three accidents from the same school? That would get the FAA's attention.

We are killing our profession with this kind of stuff happening.

Often this kind of accident is the outcome from 'certificate-oriented' training instead of training to actually LEARN the required skills. Too often the MEI is earned right along with the other CFI tickect, and little respect is paid to the fact that multi training can kill you quicker than just about any other type.

A sufficiently skilled CFI is required to prevent this. Not just one with an fresh MEI. Spped kills, when it comes to training.

This also should shut anyone up who thinks that working as a CFI is a nowhere job when there are PFT jet jobs available. This is a serious job, and I have seen too many people regard it as the fast-food job of aviation. A good CFI is worth more than a good airline pilot,any day.

 

[skyking1976]

You may avert future ramp checks by telling the inspector that the airplane is grounded. If it is a flight school airplane I am sure you can find some minor little discrepancy to squawk and have maintenance fix it. Be sure to say that the problem occurred during flight (i.e. the armrest broke) or, if he gets you during your walk-around find something wrong.

I haven't tried this myself, but a CFI buddy of mine worked this angle a few years ago. The Feds can't ramp check an airplane that has an unrectified maintenance discrepancy. It needs to be deemed airworthy and signed off by an A&P first.

Cheers,
Skyking

 

[bobbysamd]

Paranoia

You guys are paranoid! If the inspector considered the discrepencies serious enough to affect airworthiness, he/she would have issued a written statement (Condition Notice) saying the discrepencies needed to be fixed before further flight. In the absence of that, he/she was trying to be helpful by pointing out minor gripes that might have occured inflight or were missed during preflight. No matter how serious the problems were, in order to process a violation the inspector must prove the discrepencies existed during the time the airplane was flown. This is hard to do and isn't worth the time and trouble unless you're on their s**t list.

I stated above that Batman should not worry unless he gets an FAA letter. However, I believe that a little paranoia is reasonable. Stories abound about the FAA's zealousness. Once it starts the paperwork ball rolling, it's hard to stop it. Or the clearing process can run amuck. Even though you might search your records and uncover nothing, there may be a piece of paper lurking somewhere just waiting to be found that could impair your career.

I greatly appreciate the comment above about the value of a CFI. As the saying goes, " . . . . . . the CFI is G-d!"

 

[jetdriven]

here's what you say to the fed as you finish the ramp check. Ask him "are there any violations on this aircraft or me if I take off". If he answers "no" then go fly!
he cannot lie.