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toolowgear said:
It reflects hurried or poor training. Proceedures were not properly instilled.
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Dude, what's your beef with Ram? Did they turn you down for a job or did you flunk out of training?

First, you have no idea what happened. It could have been mechanical and the pilot did a great job.

Second, this has nothing to do with hurried or poor training. Following procedures should be instilled from the time the pilot shows up for his or her first lesson. Assuming the typical progression an apsiring professional pilot takes to obtain certificates and ratings, he/she already knows how to swing the gear when they get to 250 hours. By the time they get to Ram, there's nothing the company can teach more about proper gear operating procedures that would have affected the outcome of this incident.

Third, you're a tool.
 
You must be a genius to speculate and know everything about a company you have never worked for. It was pilot error that does not have to do with Ramair it has to do with a pilots poor judgment. Very good explaination from upndsky.
 
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Yeah, no kidding. Let's have no idea of the facts, let's just harp on people that aren't even involved at Ram, have nothing to do with training, hiring or ops. Sounds like a guy with a beef rather than someone who knows the least little thing about how things work at Ram.

Disclaimer: Don't work at Ram, but I have friends who do and say it's a top-notch company, very professional and safety-oriented. The downside: they pay crap! Doesn't have anything to do with gear-up landing, though---depending on the situation, it was a mechanical problem and the guy did a good job getting it down safe, or it was pilot error and ended up lucky after a brain fart. Either way---not much the company can do about either of those situations.

Pipe down, Francis.
 
FlyingSkip said:
Disclaimer: Don't work at Ram, but I have friends who do and say it's a top-notch company, very professional and safety-oriented. The downside: they pay crap! .
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The pay is competitive for the industry. Yeah, its on the lower side, but its average for 135 check hauling. Plus its a great company. I wouldn't let the amount of money you make somewhere, influence your career choice, especially in aviation,, theres too many other factors.
 
What a Winner!

Definitely sounds like someone we bounced out of training on the second day because he flew like an orangoutang on heroin.
 
Pilot error or mechanical failure? Who knows. Just glad the guy wasn't hurt. Being a former RCY guy I hate to see it happen. I've talked a lot with Ram Air pilots and they seem to like working there. I'd rather fly freight than pax anyways.
 
Pilot Error---Dude, that was awesome! I literally laughed for 30 seconds plus over a three word answer! Priceless!

Money-wise----agree with Arrow. I know guys that took a pay cut after the Package buyout, and it wasn't like BW was paying tons. In any case, it's a stepping stone, they know it, the guys working there know it, so there shouldn't be any complaints. I didn't ever complain---I just slowly went broke! Thank God for bigger and better things.

As far as the incident---any accident where the only thing banged up is the airplane and a few square feet of asphalt can't be too bad compared to the alternative. Hate to see tat one though---have a lot of hours in that particular plane...
 
Airfugsy and Big puppy learn from these mistakes, I am sure you are next. Arrow, do you know why Ram can only pay $85 a day? Guess. Have you ever heard of a pilot forgetting to put the gear down at your company. I have no beef with Ram,I have a beef with pilots that run out of fuel, forget to put down gear and run into things while taxiing. Get a life and look what this pilot has done to the credebility of your company. When pilots crash the company pays. I am sure that Ram is a great company with great pilots and 10% that ruin it all. That is all that is being said. Why do you embrace the guy that made you look like a fool and drive down pay. If there were no pilot error related accidents, do you think your pay would be better? Whos the foolish one Big Puppy.
 
Sounds like you're the foolish one, rushing to judgement and mouthing off about it. Like I said, we'll see what the report says and hopefully you can take something away from it, one way or the other.
 
AirMugsy said:
ahhh still bitter
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I have to agree with Arrow, we both worked at Package for a while and left shortly after Ram took control. There is nothing to be bitter about. It became a totally different company, and not for the better. We all took pay cuts which was crap. Especially when we were promised no pay cuts. Anyone who would work for what Ram offers(pay and otherwise) just doesn't know any better. Package didn't pay much more, but the QOL was better (especially on my old route). Guess the old rivalry between the two companys will never be put to rest.
 
toolowgear said:
Airfugsy and Big puppy learn from these mistakes, I am sure you are next. .
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You must be a little young and naive if you think that every company, airline or not, is going to employee 100% of their ideal, perfect employees. Every organization has people working for them that are bad seeds or who mess up. There is always a "bad cop" a "dis-honest judge" or just a bad seed that shouldnt be there in the first place. Thats life. Yeah, sometimes those bad seeds can tarnish an organizations reputation but those bad seeds exsist everywhere. Life is full of them and if you experienced a little more of it you'd see that. I don't even see the purpose of you posting this accident in the first place? You got a point to prove other than that your extremely immature?
 
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what is your problem?!

And the point of posting this was? Did you not notice that the article stated “Officials are not sure why the landing gear failed?” If I’m ever involved in an accident (God forbid) and the news choppers are snapping pictures of me safely on the ground while some newsroom staff writer puts together a vague story full of misinformation and tops it off with a stock photo of a C-172 for the 11 o’clock news. THE LAST THING I WANT is some d0uche bag speculating about what I did/didn’t do and should’ve done. News flash, you weren’t there moron. Easy for you to say in the comfort of your trailer while sitting on your fat a$$ with hours to think about the situation. The bottom line, wait for the facts to come in. The gear may have failed, he may have forgotten to put it down, a freakin’ midget may have attacked his plane while he landed. YOU DON’T KNOW!! This kind of stuff makes my eyes bleed!
 
haha... I like you, osu. "He flew like an orangoutang on heroin." Thats priceless, big dog.
 
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We all took pay cuts which was crap. Especially when we were promised no pay cuts. T-Storm you can say that again. I don't feel the lies came from the Ram side. All RCY wanted to do is get to the close date, we did not matter.
 
FlyingSkip said:
As far as the incident---any accident where the only thing banged up is the airplane and a few square feet of asphalt can't be too bad compared to the alternative.
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Didn't you crash a company plane, and car?
 
Leave it alone Monkey, that was a long time ago. Besides, didn't they find that it was a MX fault that caused that one? I sure know they had problems with the fuel flow in that engine for months before that accident occured. But it always came out of MX with the usual "it is normal, you'll be fine" response. I would have loved to see you try to put that aircraft in a field at night as well as the Skipper did. Oh yeah, didn't that aircraft have the same exact problem a couple months later with a not so plesant outcome (demolished aircraft) that actually could have caused the FAA to hang you out to dry?
 
How many pilots at RAM? What's the turn-over rate like? Is it difficult to get the RDU or CLT area?

I have family in the area and want to settle there after my military life is completed. Would like to work for a 135 for a while to gain experience / build confidence before the next step...

Thanks,
LA
 
CLT/JQF is easy to get into, probably more than half of the new hires go there. Turn over is about normal for the industry. Pilots will rarely stay longer than a year.
 
Man, I'm getting zinged and defended and I'm oblivious to the whole thing. Ignorance really IS bliss!

As far as Monkey's comment---did I ever deny either of those incidents? Did I ever try to shirk any HINT of responsibility in either case? Ask BW or TW if I ever did anything but step up and take responsibility, even when later events showed that the a/c wasn't much about me and was a WHOLE lot about a maintenance issue. The Exploder? That's more embarassing---you'd think somebody from the Midwest could drive on ice! BW was very happy to cash my check to pay for the damage, and I never said a word about it because that was my fault and I clean up my own messes. But am I supposed to take that as some sort of slam on me as a person or any skill set as a pilot/driver/etc? Events in the a/c showed that nothing I did or didn't do had a lot to do with either mine NOR KH's mishaps, and ya know what? It doesn't matter. Let's relate this all back to the original point of this thread and the comments I made earlier.

THEY'RE CALLED ACCIDENTS!!!!! In the long run, after all the regulatory stuff and the finger-pointing and the back-stabbing by your peers, when you've had to deal with that kind of situation you step back and realize it's a blessing that it wasn't your day to be the guy they put in the ground, the guy being cried over by friends and family. It's a piece of metal, for pete's sake, and it's a job. As professionals, we (hopefully!) try to do the best job that we can and sometimes that just isn't going to be enough! Think about the "Big Picture" items here...nobody killed, nobody hurt, no catastrophic financial hardship on anyone because of it. It's all good. It's a plane, they can build/buy another one. They're like potato chips, people aren't.

I reiterate my post that you quoted, whether it was this CLT thing, my "prison break" or KH's "rock climbing expedition"---if the only thing hurt is a few pieces of metal and a few feet of asphalt (or grass!) then it's a good day compared to what could have happened.

As far as the Ram/PE deal---dude, it's a check-hauler. It's a time builder. Hopefully it's run professionally and safely, but you have to take a step down off your lofty perch if you try to pitch it as anything else... When I was slowly going broke on PE pay, I never ONCE said a thing about BW because I walked into that situation as a man, accepted the pay for the job he offered, and WOULD NOT demean myself by blaming on him the situation that I entered freely. As far as the paycuts after the merger---I'm glad I wasn't around and from the outside I saw the pain that it caused, but I don't think it was anything deliberate to punish PE pilots. It was simply a way of coming back to a status quo and if a few people were injured financially it was the cost of doing business.

To continue my pompousity for one more sentence---use them while they use you, and move on as soon as possible to make room for the next guy.
 
LAFrequentflyer said:
How many pilots at RAM? What's the turn-over rate like? Is it difficult to get the RDU or CLT area?

I have family in the area and want to settle there after my military life is completed. Would like to work for a 135 for a while to gain experience / build confidence before the next step...

Thanks,
LA
Click to expand...
Might want to reconsider for your career's sake. I hear there are about 33 pilots right, a little under staffed, and the turnover is still running about 6 months. Seems not too many guys stick around long enough to collect their $2K bonus.
 

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