Ram Air Freight training contract?

[MrPink1911]

Mrpink if you worked at one of these worthless excuses for a freight company, and forced to fly when you could likely lose your liscense or you could slither your way out of a contract what would you do?

I can only speak from my experience, and admittedly I may be spoiled, because I work for a company that takes care of their airplanes and squawks are addressed in a timely manner. Dispatch expects you to get the job done, but from my own experience with them, they are reasonable and after you fully explain why you can't go then they generally make other plans and there are no more questions asked..... When I visited my company before I was hired, I could see by the money spent on the facilities that it was not a "fly-by-night" freighter operation..... They bottom line, at least to me, is that you have a choice whether or not to work for a company.... You have a choice to sign a training contract..... This is America, no one is forced to do anything..... My company requires a year training contract, and there are those that break it, and it is upsetting, especially when my company will pay a guy/girl to sit right seat in a Baron to build time to meet the Part 135 mins when they don't have to. I understand that we are all trying to develop a career that is both financially and personally rewarding, all I suggest is that you do it in a way that maintains your own personal intergrity..... Sadly, integrity may be in short supply these days......

 

[coltsfn8888]

Mrpink I understand your point and it is a good one. However personal integrity also needs to be maintained by a company not just its employees. When they first start you out there they are going to tell you its a great place to work, great maintenance, great management, etc. but after you sign the contract that is not always the case. I dont advocate that anyone should go there with the intention to break a contract but I threw it out there to let anyone know if they are fearing for their liscense or health they are not stuck at Ram.

 

[MrPink1911]

I see your point as well..... Companies certainly want to put their best foot forward when trying to attract employees. It is incumbant upon us as PIC to act in accordance with the FARs and in safety in order to preserve our tickets, which we have all worked to so hard to get in the first place. I can imagine a circumstance where you would go to work for someone only to find later that there are issues you wouldn't feel comfortable with..... I am just glad that we can agree that breaking a training contract just because working at the company no longer is convenient for you is not a good thing, it lacks integrity, and I truely hope that those that go down that road are not rewarded for it later.....

 

[MrPink1911]

And another thing.... It is also up to us to get the word out about those companies that lack ethics, via message boards such as this or through or own networks of colleagues. So others can choose wisely who to work for and avoid being stuck in a situation where they feel inclined to break a contract.... I, so far, have been fortunate and I would recommend working for my company to anyone who wants to build some decent time in well maintained aircraft. I truely think that if we all conduct ourselves in an honorable way, instead of backstabbing and undercutting, things would be better industry wide for us as pilots..... But then again, I may be naive.

 

[gliderguider]

Thanks to both of you guys for brining up good points and that's the reason why I brought the issue up. I see a company who has a training contract as a place that isn't a real pleasant place to be, if they see a need to forcefully keep employees. You don't see XJT or Comair making pilots sign anything. I asked because I was wondering if there were ways to have an out if certificate/life are in danger.

 

[MrPink1911]

I know I keep going on and on about the company I work for, and for that I appologize, its just that my experince is limited to there.... But, I signed a training contract when I started working there, but I dont think that signing a contract necessarily makes the place a bad place. Is it a negative, yes, but the fact is these companies would like a return on the investment of their training dollar. And for that I do not blame them. Also, to compare a relatively small freight hauler with a much large regional airline, is comparing apples to oranges. I dont know why the regionals dont have training contracts, some may, I dont know, I have never worked for an airline. But I knew my company had a training contract and I signed it willingly and it was a commitment I made in good faith and as long as the company didnt play "dirty pool" I was going to keep my WORD..... PERIOD

 

[MrPink1911]

CHQ is regarded to be one of the better regionals to go to work for these days, some may disagree.... But, according to their latest job posting on Climbto350, there is a $15,000 / 2 year training contract..... The others may follow suit, who knows???

Which is kind of amusing, because I know of at least 2 (note the sarcasm) high quality individuals recently broke their contractual agreement with my company to go to CHQ to apparently sign another one.... Whats disturbing to me is that a company will actually hire people to do stuff like break contracts.... Its only rewarding bad behavior....

 

[coltsfn8888]

Mrpink I agree with everything you say except that it is acceptable for a company to have training contracts in the first place. It is completely unreasonable and should be outlawed. Take an objective look at the industry, there are a lot of pilots and cfi's at the bottom making almost nothing. The reason the companies can get away with paying you less than a livable wage is basic economics of supply and demand. If you are not willng to work for that wage someone else is. In many cases people are in massive amounts of debt and still cant afford to pay the rent and employers will turn around and claim that it is fair its just capitalism. Capitalism applies to job markets as well. Supply of available jobs will determine the wages and that will determine demand. That is the way a fair market capitalism should work. Training contracts are used to simply undermine the job market. If your company wants you to stick around for a year they should pay you a wage that keeps you around for a year not force you into a training contract. If your going to assume unlivable wages are ethical then by the same logic you must conclude that training contracts are not.

 

[MrPink1911]

Training contracts are not what I would call positive or acceptable by any means, but they are a fact of the industry and if you sign one in good faith, you should honor it in good faith..... Thats all I am saying!!! I would agree that pay in many cases is substandard, but regards to pay, pilots are our own worst enemies..... Regional airline pay is a good example, and I know for sure that I am not getting rich flying freight..... You have to admit though, training someone for a flight job, be it in an E145, Citation, Lear, or even a BE58 or PA31 is more costly for a company than sitting someone down at a PC and making sure they are proficient in MS Word or Excel..... Thats why training contracts exist in the first place..... If I had a small charter company and I hired a guy to fly for me and paid for him to get a type rating in whatever plane and he turns around and quits, that would be a problem.... And the reasons for people leaving are not always money.... It could be an upset wife or girlfriend..... The bottom line is everything in aviation is expensive and the money has to come from somewhere..... I cant think of a solution to this delema, can you??? My plan has always been to do my year at my company and build time and more importantly a small, but close, network of pilot friends who can help each other as we build our careers.....

 

[coltsfn8888]

The solution to the dilema you proposed is simple. You take the owner of the charter company, regional airline or freight company and you tell them if someone trains and bails tough. I guarantee if you paid more people wouldnt do that. This is a career position not a job we're working to get through college. From an owners prospective, your paying a guy about twenty k a year less than what he should be making, if you have to take a 10 k hit once in a while tough. And furthermore if they are willing to tie your hands with a contract it has to make you wonder what other kinds of business practices they are willing to engage in.