Raising Regional Pay: A different approach

[cynic]

The real solution that will work, but will never fly

Put in an educational requirement like a Master's degree.
Now a bunch of morons will point out that you don't need a college degree to fly an airplane.... and you don't. But if you want to stymie the flow of morons willing to work for less than 20K a year that’s really the way to do it.

If it were that hard to fly a regional jet, they’d be dropping like flies. But its not, there are no REAL educational requirements to get an ATP or commercial pilot’s license, and by in large, you can have a drunk howler monkey operating the autopilot and 99.9999% of the time it just won’t matter. And given enough money, I am 100% sure I could put, well maybe not a monkey, but perhaps a full grown gorilla, through a factory flight school.

 

[S2B]

Another problem with your theory is that there are no studies that link poor safety to poor pilots. It does not cost more to make a pilot fly safe. It may cost more to make a pilot fly economically (fuel) or on time, but not safe. We are professionals and we do our job no matter how low (Great Lakes) or how high (Delta) the pay is.

 

[N8Dogg]

If it were that hard to fly a regional jet, they’d be dropping like flies. But its not, there are no REAL educational requirements to get an ATP or commercial pilot’s license, and by in large, you can have a drunk howler monkey operating the autopilot and 99.9999% of the time it just won’t matter. And given enough money, I am 100% sure I could put, well maybe not a monkey, but perhaps a full grown gorilla, through a factory flight school.[/QUOTE]
You are proof that a d@%n fool can become a pilot so I guess I see your point. Not too long ago 24 of 26 pilots in a regional captain upgrade class washed out. What was that you were saying about dropping like flies? Give us more credit than that. Dumb a$$!

 

[halfmoon]

There is a way.
If every pilot quit his job, and every pilot REFUSED to come back or REFUSED to get hired by another employer unless pay was increased then things would change. BUT this will never happen because there will all ways be pilots willing to work for nothing, or low time pilots looking for that fast track to the 747. This whole world is about supply and demand. low supply or high demand = high costs(high pay) or surplus or low demand = low pay

 

[cynic]

You are proof that a d@%n fool can become a pilot so I guess I see your point. Not too long ago 24 of 26 pilots in a regional captain upgrade class washed out. What was that you were saying about dropping like flies. Give us more credit than that. Dumb a$$!

This is how you operate the quote button. And I agree any fool can become a pilot. That is the crux of the problem.

Thus, be prepared to work for peanuts or..... make it harder to become a pilot (that will never happen) or..... work in an industry that weeds out more of the fools.... For example, electrical engineers are well paid, and its not coincidental that obtaining a degree in electrical engineering and obtaining a PE is far more difficult than obtaining a commercial pilot’s license.

 

[username]

Okay... that's a one idea. But let's say for the sake of argument it doesn't work. Here's another idea.

Let's also say you and a buddy are now carpenters. I know, I know ... we all prefer to compare ourselves with doctors and lawyers but bear with me here. You've both been carpenters for five years and you're both in the carpenters union. You work for company A and your buddy works for B. Guess how much you each make? You both get paid the same!

You see your union won't allow you to swing a fancy new hammer for less money just because company A doesn't want to pay as much. Since you're in the union you get paid the standard union wage regardless of who you're working for.

The problem we have is that our union needs to establish a national pay scale simialar to the carpenters. If you're a 5th year CA on the EMB or a 747 there needs to be a set pay rate. Regardless of which union company you work for everybody gets paid the same.

Then there's no more arguments over pay and no company get a competitive advantage by shorting my paycheck and creating a race to the bottom. Either the company pays the established union wage or they're non-union. We all strike company's that use non-union labor.
It's simple and it works in the rest of the unions around the country. It would work here too.

 

[Ben Dover]

Another problem with your theory is that there are no studies that link poor safety to poor pilots. It does not cost more to make a pilot fly safe. It may cost more to make a pilot fly economically (fuel) or on time, but not safe. We are professionals and we do our job no matter how low (Great Lakes) or how high (Delta) the pay is.

S2B, you're thinking to hard. Let me clarify something. I'm saying we should change our PERCEIVED VALUE (to the public, and consequently management). Perception and reality are very often two different things. Why do you buy a Coke or Pepsi instead of RC or Shasta Cola? Because of perceived value, not taste. Studies have proven that people can't pick their favorite cola out of a lineup based on taste. But Coke and Pepsi don't care about those studies, because they're not selling taste, they're selling a brand or image and people are more than happy to pay for it.

username, I'll get behind you on the national payscale. Why hasn't ALPA supported this idea?

 

[flx757]

username, I'll get behind you on the national payscale. Why hasn't ALPA supported this idea?

Uh oh...now you're starting to sound like Ty Webb. He has brought up and supports this idea of a pilot's "guild" where all pilots work under a national pay scale, etc...and you know how he gets kicked around on this board (not that I think he cares... )

 

[username]

username, I'll get behind you on the national payscale. Why hasn't ALPA supported this idea?

Because they're inept.

In the past they've used the raises at one carrier to help pull industry wages upward overall. Now wages are going the other way but IMHO they're stuck with the old mentality. The race to the bottom is just getting good and warm. Meanwhile, ALPA debates the size of the fire hose while the building is ablaze.

You also have to convince the higher paid pilots they should sign on for what could be another pay cut. Even though we do the same job, pilots at "Nordstrom's" want more compensation than the one's at "Wal-Mart." Nobody stops to think that we could set the bar high and demand excellent wages for all.

That being said, I still think it can and should be done. The true power of ALPA is that they've organized most carriers nantionwide. We need to get them to use that power.

 

[Ben Dover]

Uh oh...now you're starting to sound like Ty Webb. He has brought up and supports this idea of a pilot's "guild" where all pilots work under a national pay scale, etc...and you know how he gets kicked around on this board (not that I think he cares... )

Well, it's much easier to trash an idea than come up with one yourself. But then again what else would you expect on an anonymous internet board....

Because they're inept.

No argument there. Granted they have done some good things for the industry, but a sound pilot compensation strategy isn't one of them.