Raising Regional Pay: A different approach

[Ben Dover]

Instead of trying to solve the problem of low pay ourselves; here's an alternative approach.

Let the problem solve itself! In other words, set things in motion so that companies WANT to pay us more. Insane you say? Here me out.

Why do companies pay regional pilots so little? Answer: because they can, WITHOUT JEPARDIZING THEIR PERCIEVED PRODUCT.

Here's the premise:
1. Almost ALL people think pilots make a lot of money. They don't think in terms of mainline vs. regionals, they just lump all pilots together.
2. People derive comfort in knowing that a high paid professional is at the controls.
3. People will change their buying habits if they feel safety is an issue (possibly even spend more to be more safe).
4. Pay attention, this one is key: IN THE ABSENCE OF INFORMATION, PEOPLE JUDGE QUALITY BY PRICE. (i.e. lower paid pilots = lower quality pilots)

Solution:
Convince people you get what you pay for in an airline pilot

Conclusion:
When customers start going elsewhere because they don't want to get on an airplane flown by a cheap/low quality pilot, management will find some extra money to throw our way to increase our preceived quality.

 

[Old Crow]

Guess Ivy league was out of the question for you eh?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

How many people do you think actually pay attention to whether or not they are flying on a regional carrier or mainline when they buy a ticket? If they go to Delta.com and buy a round trip ticket...all of the legs could be on Comair CRJ's..but as far as they are concerned, its Delta. They know that these companies have been around long enough not to have idiots in the cockpits...so would they change their schedule and buying habits simply to avoid flying with a regional subcarrier? Highly unlikely in my opinion. Not to mention you are trying to convince the public of something that isn't true at all...that lower paid regional pilots are not as safe.

 

[Ben Dover]

How many people do you think actually pay attention to whether or not they are flying on a regional carrier or mainline when they buy a ticket? .

Not many, which supports the point I'm trying to make.

If they go to Delta.com and buy a round trip ticket...all of the legs could be on Comair CRJ's..but as far as they are concerned, its Delta. They know that these companies have been around long enough not to have idiots in the cockpits....

Exactly!!!

so would they change their schedule and buying habits simply to avoid flying with a regional subcarrier? Highly unlikely in my opinion.

Now you're catching on! They need to change their habits to it affects the regionals bottom line. (by the way, that means profits $$$)

Not to mention you are trying to convince the public of something that isn't true at all...that lower paid regional pilots are not as safe....

Oh, you think marketing campaigns are based on truth do you? Oh you have much to learn young grass hopper.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Oh you have much to learn young grass hopper.

If you say so...seems like a pretty shallow and inconceivable idea to me, though.

 

[moscowcfi]

This idea reminds me of the witch scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail. The reasoning is just as exciting to follow but the conclusion is just as wacked.

 

[NHaviator]

??

umm...maybe I missed something in the original post. I understand the "Premise" and the "Conclusion" however I think the "Solution" lacks just a bit of specifics on how exactly we are supposed to convince passengers that they get what they pay for in a pilot. I think we all agree that they have no idea who they are really flying on for the most part, or what the payrates for that company are.

 

[Ben Dover]

umm...maybe I missed something in the original post. I understand the "Premise" and the "Conclusion" however I think the "Solution" lacks just a bit of specifics .

Congratulations NHaviator! You missed nothing. You are correct, there are no specifics on how to implement this solution. In concept my idea is strong, but in practice, implementation would be very difficult. Who know's, maybe someone else can figure out a way. I have a few ideas myself, but they all require some influence and funding.

In large part, my post was really to try and get some of you guys/girls to think a little differently. Maybe look at a problem from a different perspective, and you'll get some new ideas you hadn't thought of before. It's just really tiresome to read the same old posts over and over complaining about low pay, we're not going to settle for less than Comair + "x" % in our next contract, then big talk whithers away, and you get a $1 and hour more than you had before.

 

[threegreen123]

Instead of trying to solve the problem of low pay ourselves; here's an alternative approach.

Let the problem solve itself! In other words, set things in motion so that companies WANT to pay us more. Insane you say? Here me out.

Why do companies pay regional pilots so little? Answer: because they can, WITHOUT JEPARDIZING THEIR PERCIEVED PRODUCT.

Here's the premise:
1. Almost ALL people think pilots make a lot of money. They don't think in terms of mainline vs. regionals, they just lump all pilots together.
2. People derive comfort in knowing that a high paid professional is at the controls.
3. People will change their buying habits if they feel safety is an issue (possibly even spend more to be more safe).
4. Pay attention, this one is key: IN THE ABSENCE OF INFORMATION, PEOPLE JUDGE QUALITY BY PRICE. (i.e. lower paid pilots = lower quality pilots)

Solution:
Convince people you get what you pay for in an airline pilot

Conclusion:
When customers start going elsewhere because they don't want to get on an airplane flown by a cheap/low quality pilot, management will find some extra money to throw our way to increase our preceived quality.

So what do I have to do to show people I am a cheap low quality pilot compared to a expensive high quality pilot?

If I make under 50K/yr--"Accidentily" put too little gas in and have to make a fuel stop? If I make under $40K...I drop them in from 20 feet? Under 30K a year? I'll leave the gear pins in. Under 20K/yr...scrape a wing! Yeah, this sounds like a great idea.

 

[hbrow15]

Seems to me if passengers stop flying on RJ's to fly on the mainline and the company is not making money with RJ's I would not think some one would say the answer to the problem is to put more money into RJ's I.E pay increase. If anything I would imagine that they would reevaluate RJ's altogether since the loads on the mainline are now up and Rj's down. If ASA and Comair somehow were able to convince thier passengers that because of the pay they are getting the product might not be quite as safe and they go to a mainline flight with Delta if management looks at Comair and ASA now in the red and loads up at mainline, those cost cuts that they are looking for why would his attention not now shift to the regionals?. Also back when regionals were mostly turboprops most of the flying public thought that the airplane itself was not as safe as mainline jets yet thay still flew on those. I understand the point because nobody thinks that a lawyer that the court provides for you free of charge is going to be any good, but I would think that most people would think that they would have qualified pilots when they have a multi-million dollar airplane and 50 potential lawsuits in the seats behind them.

 

[gear_guy]

Seems to me if passengers stop flying on RJ's to fly on the mainline and the company is not making money with RJ's I would not think some one would say the answer to the problem is to put more money into RJ's I.E pay increase.

I doubt it. Chances are what would happen is you'd be out of a job if people stopped flying your rj airline. I think it would be pretty risky to convince people that pay=safety. However, I am glad to finally see someone try to think of a way to change things rather than cry about it. Congratulations on that, and keep up the thought process. This is how things get changed.

 

[Lequip]

Just when you think "English" is the biggest idiot out there, along comes this guy.

 

[dav8or]

Two words:




Tip Jar

 

[igneousy2]

So I guess we should just all forget to put the gear down once or twice a month then we'll all get raises?

I guess you're not subject to random drug testing.

 

[OUjetdrvr]

Actually the only honorable and professional way to reverse this ugly trend in low-paid, highly skilled industry and its downward spiral is we all get mad and QUIT! But thats not really realistic at all, so we should just shut up and take it, save our energy and stop bitching cause our exuberance to fly for a living and the actions of our predecessors are the reason we are where we are today.

Put up and/or shut up!

 

[cynic]

The real solution that will work, but will never fly

Put in an educational requirement like a Master's degree.
Now a bunch of morons will point out that you don't need a college degree to fly an airplane.... and you don't. But if you want to stymie the flow of morons willing to work for less than 20K a year that’s really the way to do it.

If it were that hard to fly a regional jet, they’d be dropping like flies. But its not, there are no REAL educational requirements to get an ATP or commercial pilot’s license, and by in large, you can have a drunk howler monkey operating the autopilot and 99.9999% of the time it just won’t matter. And given enough money, I am 100% sure I could put, well maybe not a monkey, but perhaps a full grown gorilla, through a factory flight school.

 

[S2B]

Another problem with your theory is that there are no studies that link poor safety to poor pilots. It does not cost more to make a pilot fly safe. It may cost more to make a pilot fly economically (fuel) or on time, but not safe. We are professionals and we do our job no matter how low (Great Lakes) or how high (Delta) the pay is.

 

[N8Dogg]

If it were that hard to fly a regional jet, they’d be dropping like flies. But its not, there are no REAL educational requirements to get an ATP or commercial pilot’s license, and by in large, you can have a drunk howler monkey operating the autopilot and 99.9999% of the time it just won’t matter. And given enough money, I am 100% sure I could put, well maybe not a monkey, but perhaps a full grown gorilla, through a factory flight school.[/QUOTE]
You are proof that a d@%n fool can become a pilot so I guess I see your point. Not too long ago 24 of 26 pilots in a regional captain upgrade class washed out. What was that you were saying about dropping like flies? Give us more credit than that. Dumb a$$!

 

[halfmoon]

There is a way.
If every pilot quit his job, and every pilot REFUSED to come back or REFUSED to get hired by another employer unless pay was increased then things would change. BUT this will never happen because there will all ways be pilots willing to work for nothing, or low time pilots looking for that fast track to the 747. This whole world is about supply and demand. low supply or high demand = high costs(high pay) or surplus or low demand = low pay

 

[cynic]

You are proof that a d@%n fool can become a pilot so I guess I see your point. Not too long ago 24 of 26 pilots in a regional captain upgrade class washed out. What was that you were saying about dropping like flies. Give us more credit than that. Dumb a$$!

This is how you operate the quote button. And I agree any fool can become a pilot. That is the crux of the problem.

Thus, be prepared to work for peanuts or..... make it harder to become a pilot (that will never happen) or..... work in an industry that weeds out more of the fools.... For example, electrical engineers are well paid, and its not coincidental that obtaining a degree in electrical engineering and obtaining a PE is far more difficult than obtaining a commercial pilot’s license.