RAH/Midwest

[doh]

Cooperation is a two way street. Best of luck to all affected.

 

[StaySeated]

Midwest pilots will be integrated into the RAH seniority list. RAH wants to integrate all seniority lists at one time, as this seems to be the most correct way in keeping with the spirit of A/M (ALL affected parties must be included in talks). Midwest is returning aircraft back to Boeing, and will have zero 717's by the end of November. Until the seniority integration is complete, Midwest pilots cannot fly any RAH aircraft, including the 190's in Midwest paint. So, Midwest pilots will essentially be furloughed as their planes leave. However, for integration purposes, any Midwest pilot who was active at the date of the acquisition (the date all the legal papers were signed) will be considered active for integration purposes. It is a lousy situation, but it is the most correct way given that Midwest pilots are losing their pre-merger aircraft. If you look at the Frontier pilots, they are keeping their airframes, and therefore are not facing furlough.

The sooner integration happens, the sooner the Midwest pilots can get back on the line. Midwest guys NEED F9 pilots to cooperate, and not stall integration. Otherwise, it may be a year or more until Midwest guys get back in the game.

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the meaning of "cooperate" and "not stall integration" as it applies to FAPA?

 

[Minimaniac]

Just out of curiosity, how would you define the meaning of "cooperate" and "not stall integration" as it applies to FAPA?

It wasn't meant to be a loaded statement. I was referring to the possibility of Frontier trying to remain completely separate from the RAH seniority list. Bedford keeps saying he wants to keep F9 separate, despite the RAH scope clause. IF Frontier pilots approach the 5 way integration talks with the goal of becoming a part of the master RAH seniority list, I consider that cooperation. If they approach the 5 way talks with the intention of remaining separate, I consider that stalling.

The current state of affairs requires F9 to be integrated. I understand that there will be some time spent on fences, equipment locks, and the like, and that could potentially take a few months to hammer out. But, no one from Lynx, Midwest, or Mokulele will be integrated until Frontier accepts the requirement of integration. I am not suggesting that Frontier does not accept this, I am merely saying that Frontier pilots could possibly believe Bedford and think that integration is avoidable. I honestly don't know what Frontier pilots think, so I won't assume. I just hope that they know that the return of Midwest pilots to flying positions is contingent on their cooperation and participation.

 

[ohoh]

this is what the midwest pilots/unions should have
done a year ago - see the writing on the wall.

informational picket in front of the airport
take out ads - MIDWEST now is not MIDWEST - outsourced labor.
crews let frequent flyers know what the deal is.
last 3 months - make PAs inform pax about the deal.

nothing wrong with telling the truth!

 

[Minimaniac]

Also, I want to say that IF Frontier pilots try to avoid integration, RAH may still go ahead with integration, and just leave the Frontier pilots out. This may be detrimental to the Frontier pilots in the long term if integration is enforced later on. Who knows.

It has been stated that the planned expansion of RAH will result in the employment of all pilots on the 5 current seniority lists, regardless of active or furlough status. The growth has begun, and should continue for a good part of next year, and maybe beyond. IF integration is held up (delayed by one or more pilot groups), it is almost certain that the initial expansion of 190's will be staffed with RAH pilots, and that RAH pilots will be the first recalled. However, there should be considerably more seats than RAH furloughees, and I am certain that the Teamsters will insist on those remaining seats being filled by the furloughees at Midwest and the other carriers BEFORE RAH hires anyone off the street. Hopefully the mass integration will be settled soon, and recalls can happen in order of new seniority. Good luck to everyone. Teamsters would love to be able to focus solely on the next contract, but the integration IS the first priority right now. The union has devoted itself entirely to integration and cleaning up the messes left by the former President/Legal Counsel/Useless Stooge. Clean up is going well. We are eager to get the integration done so we can go back to fighting for better wages and work rules with ALL of our resources, and with the support of 1000 new members who will certainly demand just compensation. When all is said and done, about 80% of the new master senioirty list will have had no part in passing the current contract, and are far more informed on their worth as pilots (despite the "I know a guy" comments you hear on this board).

 

[Minimaniac]

this is what the midwest pilots/unions should have
done a year ago - see the writing on the wall.

informational picket in front of the airport
take out ads - MIDWEST now is not MIDWEST - outsourced labor.
crews let frequent flyers know what the deal is.
last 3 months - make PAs inform pax about the deal.

nothing wrong with telling the truth!

If so, then those announcements should have been made when Skywest started flying for Midwest.

No one in the general public likes outsourcing. Most people know someone who has been affected by it. But at the same time, life goes on after outsourcing. The public continues to use outsourced products and industries every day. And in truth, until Southwest and Airtran begin to ramp up service into MKE, most MKE residents are used to flying on "outsourced" jets with outsourced crews. MCI residents are in a similar situation. Sure, some mainline metal makes its way through those cities at some point in the day, but most flights are RJ's. I am not defending what has happened, I am just pointing out the futility of making such announcements.

 

[Moustache]

Cooperation is a two way street. Best of luck to all affected.

So is karma

 

[likeitis]

Midwest pilots will be integrated into the RAH seniority list. RAH wants to integrate all seniority lists at one time, as this seems to be the most correct way in keeping with the spirit of A/M (ALL affected parties must be included in talks). Midwest is returning aircraft back to Boeing, and will have zero 717's by the end of November. Until the seniority integration is complete, Midwest pilots cannot fly any RAH aircraft, including the 190's in Midwest paint. So, Midwest pilots will essentially be furloughed as their planes leave. However, for integration purposes, any Midwest pilot who was active at the date of the acquisition (the date all the legal papers were signed) will be considered active for integration purposes. It is a lousy situation, but it is the most correct way given that Midwest pilots are losing their pre-merger aircraft. If you look at the Frontier pilots, they are keeping their airframes, and therefore are not facing furlough.

The sooner integration happens, the sooner the Midwest pilots can get back on the line. Midwest guys NEED F9 pilots to cooperate, and not stall integration. Otherwise, it may be a year or more until Midwest guys get back in the game.

70% of the Midwest pilots being stapled to the bottom is not an integration. Having a guy who has as much simulator time as the guy above him has total time isn't even close to fair. Having 13.5 years difference in date of hire isn't fair. Having a guy who started at Eastern while I was in Junior High School pulling gear for a guy who recently was able to rent a car isn't fair. So I guess your interpretation of fair is way off from mine.

 

[Minimaniac]

70% of the Midwest pilots being stapled to the bottom is not an integration. Having a guy who has as much simulator time as the guy above him has total time isn't even close to fair. Having 13.5 years difference in date of hire isn't fair. Having a guy who started at Eastern while I was in Junior High School pulling gear for a guy who recently was able to rent a car isn't fair. So I guess your interpretation of fair is way off from mine.

Just to be "fair"...

I never advocated nor expressed my opinion of what a fair integration is. I never intended to imply that furloughed Midwest pilots should be stapled. My idea of fair has never included a staple, no matter which airlines are involved. I simply meant to express that not all Midwest pilots will be considered furloughed, which was a direct response to the original thread poster. In all likelihood, all of this integration mess will fall at the feet of an arbitrator, who will decide what is fair and what is not. When that happens, active pilot vs. furloughed pilot will be relevant, and will be decided based on the terms I listed in my original post. I only try to offer facts as best I understand them, not opinions. If I do offer opinion, I preface it with a clear "My opinion is that..." or something along those lines.

as for how I feel the integration should go...

I am not on a negotiating committee, friends with anyone on a committee, an arbitrator, or in any other position to make a decision. My opinion has been sent to my union representatives on the negotiating committee, and they will do as they see fit with it.

 

[likeitis]

Just to be "fair"...

I never advocated nor expressed my opinion of what a fair integration is. I never intended to imply that furloughed Midwest pilots should be stapled. My idea of fair has never included a staple, no matter which airlines are involved. I simply meant to express that not all Midwest pilots will be considered furloughed, which was a direct response to the original thread poster. In all likelihood, all of this integration mess will fall at the feet of an arbitrator, who will decide what is fair and what is not. When that happens, active pilot vs. furloughed pilot will be relevant, and will be decided based on the terms I listed in my original post. I only try to offer facts as best I understand them, not opinions. If I do offer opinion, I preface it with a clear "My opinion is that..." or something along those lines.

as for how I feel the integration should go...

I am not on a negotiating committee, friends with anyone on a committee, an arbitrator, or in any other position to make a decision. My opinion has been sent to my union representatives on the negotiating committee, and they will do as they see fit with it.

You said that the most correct way to integrate was to integrate the active pilots which are the 30%. If that is correct then the end result will be what I stated. Better hope there is some hiring at other airlines soon for these pilots to leave or it's going to be a miserable working experience. These guys have a very long memory and things will be sour until the last YX pilot can get out to better things.