RAH buys Midwest!!!

[hockeypilot44]

1800 "furloughed US Airways pilots" (over 300 were active pilots, but were thrown under the bus by the LCC MEC) were stapled to the bottom of the arbitrated decision by NMB arbiter George Nicolau.

Precedent has been set.

T8

Those were two comparable companies. I wouldn't call that precedent in this case.

 

[hockeypilot44]

1800 "furloughed US Airways pilots" (over 300 were active pilots, but were thrown under the bus by the LCC MEC) were stapled to the bottom of the arbitrated decision by NMB arbiter George Nicolau.

Precedent has been set.

T8

Those were two comparable companies. I wouldn't call that precedent in this case. Were you at Republic when furloughed US Airways first officers were hired at Republic as captains aka jets for jobs? This agreement was made because the Republic aircraft were directly replacing the US Airways aircraft. This is a unique situation.

 

[Fubijaakr]

hockey,

You need to read up on history. Furloughed pilots NEVER get integrated because they don't bring a job to the Seniority list. The always get stapled. You know that.

 

[trainer8]

Those were two comparable companies. I wouldn't call that precedent in this case. Were you at Republic when furloughed US Airways first officers were hired at Republic as captains aka jets for jobs? This agreement was made because the Republic aircraft were directly replacing the US Airways aircraft. This is a unique situation.

First, precedent doesn care about what you or I think is comparable or fair. Precedent is a part of current law and what attorney's establish their cases on. ALG/ Mohawk of the RLA are the governing issues regarding seniority integration. ALPA Merger Policy governs it it the parties are both ALPA. Nicolau is what happens when parties can't agree on union policy. His award sets precedent as to what can happen and also establishes a template for future disputes.

Second, the companies (LCC/AWA) were not comparable in the context of pilot seniority, which is the context of your comment. Thus, the seniority dispute. Neither are RAH and Midwest.

Third, in 2005, the US Airways FOs who jumped ship early (four of them) are the only ones who were hired as captains at Republic. They were "branded" and ostracised for jumping seniority over pilots that were 15 years senior to them. They were warned not to jump seniority. A couple never went back to Airways because of it. Two did, and, from what I hear, things are difficult for them. The rest of the FOs transfered in seniority order and upgraded based on their J4J DOH.

I'm not sure what you point is regarding the J4J protocol. J4J was a negotiated agreement between ALPA and the IBT. It has nothing to do with merger and aquisition aspects of seniority integration.

T8

 

[aewanabe]

RAH CA pay is 50/53 only on the E140, which is a fraction of the non-Ejet fleet, but you knew that right HP? My friends remaining at RAH are arguing for a ratioed integration with fences, but how do you fence a jet that's going away (the 717)?

 

[eaglesview]

hockey,

You need to read up on history. Furloughed pilots NEVER get integrated because they don't bring a job to the Seniority list. The always get stapled. You know that.

A habit pattern that needs to be changed. Rediculus mentality where a pilot with ten or so years of service but just happens to be furloughed the day they "snap that picture" goes to the bottom.

 

[TWA Dude]

Second, the companies (LCC/AWA) were not comparable in the context of pilot seniority, which is the context of your comment.

Incorrect. AWA had senior pilots and junior pilots. US Airways also had senior pilots and junior pilots. That's perfect compatibility. You wanted the AWA pilots made more junior and we wanted each groups relative seniority to remain roughly the same. Arbitrator Nicolau (and subsequently the NW/DL arbitrators) agreed.

Once again you confuse seniority with longevity. Since the judge and jury proved we were right I guess it really doesn't matter anymore whether you understand the distinction. Keep on whining how wronged you feel you were if it makes you feel better.

 

[trainer8]

Incorrect. AWA had senior pilots and junior pilots. US Airways also had senior pilots and junior pilots. That's perfect compatibility. You wanted the AWA pilots made more junior and we wanted each groups relative seniority to remain roughly the same. Arbitrator Nicolau (and subsequently the NW/DL arbitrators) agreed.

Once again you confuse seniority with longevity. Since the judge and jury proved we were right I guess it really doesn't matter anymore whether you understand the distinction. Keep on whining how wronged you feel you were if it makes you feel better.

"Dude" :

Thanks. I guess that is the dispute, isn't it. I could clarify it better. And yes, the judge has ruled for the AWA pilot group. Seniority or longevity, precedent takes place. And that is what will happen on the integration at Republic and Midwest. Also, seems to me the furloughees got stapled to the bottom if I read Nicolau correctly. So, I anticipate precedant will take place in this integration as well.

Precedent...(by the way, that's the thread topic).

For the record, congrats on your court win. I don't work there, anymore; been gone for almost 4 years now.

I'll side step your personal jabs and bitterness and not give the dignity of a professional response. I have no "dog in your fight."


T8

 

[Full of LUV]

Shoulda walked away....

Wow. I didn't realize they were going to staple the furloughed Midwest pilots. The truth is Midwest was not bankrupt, never went bankrupt, and probably would not have gone bankrupt (the last one is debatable, can't be proven either way). The Midwest pilots are being replaced by Republic pilots to attack labor. I personally think if it ever goes to arbitration, there will be a ratio merger with the Republic captains. I think the most junior Midwest pilot will be senior to the most junior Republic captain. First year Midwest pay is $41, second year $58. First year Republic captain $50, second year $53. I think when it comes to it, this will be taken into consideration. I think the furloughed Midwest pilots will be given seniority because it can be proven that the 190's and 170's are direct replacements of the 717's and MD-80's. The Republic first officers are dreaming if they think they will get much better than that. I'm guessing it will end up being about a 3-1 ration. 3 Republic pilots for every 1 Midwest pilot. Frontier hasn't been bought yet. We'll see what happens there. This merger is uncharted territory. As far as who bought who, it doesn't matter in merging pilots. See Delta/NWA or USAirways,America West. The only thing brought into consideration is career expectations. The Midwest pilots never had career expectations making as little as a Republic first officer from day 1.

Midwest pilots should have shut the place down, strike, work stoppage, whatever the day the first replacement jet arrived. They facilitated their smooth transition to eventual job loss.

 

[CitationLover]

Midwest pilots should have shut the place down, strike, work stoppage, whatever the day the first replacement jet arrived. They facilitated their smooth transition to eventual job loss.

When you can explain how we could have done that legally, then you can speak. Midwest pilots held the line and balked at the salary demanded concessions of management and still do to this day.