QX EXCO calls B.S. on G0Jets; supports TSA pilots

[ReverseSensing]

QX EXCO sent a letter to IBT Airline Division (Treichler) protesting another local's organization of G0Jets. Pretty good stuff. Probably fall on deaf ears, though.

Anyone have the letter in text format?

 

[LT. Dangle]

Mr. Don Treichler
Director, Airline Division, IBT
6242 Westchester, Suite 250
Los Angeles, CA 90045

February 7, 2006

Mr. Treichler:

We are writing to express our dismay over the International Brotherhood of Teamsters local 618's recent decision to represent the pilots of recently incorporated ************************* Airlines. We feel that their organization will negatively affect the IBT's ability to effectively represent Teamster pilots already in the fold.

************************* Airlines is an alter ego airline conceived to further the management of Trans States Airline's goal of subverting their current Collective Bargaining Agreement. We have heard arguments that ************************* had to be formed since the American scope agreement requires a separate operating certificate. While this may be true, a seniority list apart from the existing Trans-States pilots is not a requirement of that operating certificate. Based on the precedent of IBT-represented Republic Airways pilots flying under multiple certificates it is clear that this argument is specious, and merely an anti-labor smokescreen intended to obscure *************************'s intended purpose.

At a time when the Air line Pilots' Association has greatly marginalized itself by its short-sighted mishandling of the alterego problem, it is disappointing to see the IBT rushing to welcome pilots better left to the whims of their unscrupulous employer into the Brotherhood of organized labor rather than taking a stand on an issue that goes to the heart of Labor's
cause.

We understand the importance of Organization to the IBT's mission, but cannot support it when it comes at the expense of Representation. It is difficult to understand the IBT's motivation in organizing a pilot group willing to aid in Trans States' agenda of weakening an established Pilot Union. Additionally, our membership has expressed its concern that *************************
representation has the potential to harm Horizon Air Pilots, who could begin Section 6 negotiations as soon as March of 2006. When the effort to enhance our industry-leading Agreement begins, Horizon management will be grateful for the example of an IBT-represented alter ego working under substandard conditions to support their inevitable attempt to extract concessions from the QXT eamsters.

We urge the powers that be to pause for a moment and reflect on how ************************* representation will likely harm current IBT members throughout the Airline Division. We thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

 

[ReverseSensing]

Hey, thanks.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Even with unions, it's all about the buck.

 

[QXbuzzard]

I just got the letter in my e-mail. Thank you guys for stepping in. It gives me hope that our representation for the next contract will be strong.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

I just got the letter in my e-mail. Thank you guys for stepping in. It gives me hope that our representation for the next contract will be strong.

It'll be as strong as the pilot group. No more, no less.

 

[ReverseSensing]

It'll be as strong as the pilot group. No more, no less.

Ooooh, I just got goose bumps; ooops, now I just threw-up in my mouth a little.

Seriously, that's either inspiring or terrifying, depending upon your take.

 

[QXbuzzard]

Only time is on our pilot group's side. If the airgroup keeps posting profits, the longer our pilot group delays talks, the less leverage the company has, the better. Just from talking to other pilots and hearing opinions, I don't think our pilot group is stupid at all. I think the majority of us stand on the same ground. The flipside, pilots have been known to get suckered in to a deal that seems to good to be true, and it turns out to be just that. Let's hope that doesn't happen. No paycuts for anything!!!!!

 

[Lav Service]

To the G@Jets boys and girls in here:

The remaining members of your union (Republic, Horizon, etc.) do not want you. ALPA hates you. And I hope you burn in hell. Enjoy working for a company that is and WILL BE substandard in every aspect. And when you cry and complain one day (as we know you will) no one will care. You'll only be getting what you deserve. Enjoy.

 

[dkwid]

Only time is on our pilot group's side. If the airgroup keeps posting profits, the longer our pilot group delays talks, the less leverage the company has, the better. Just from talking to other pilots and hearing opinions, I don't think our pilot group is stupid at all. I think the majority of us stand on the same ground. The flipside, pilots have been known to get suckered in to a deal that seems to good to be true, and it turns out to be just that. Let's hope that doesn't happen. No paycuts for anything!!!!!

I absolutely agree. What we all need to do is continue reminding each other of these realities when we are out there flying. We should not be expecting the impossible but the reality is that every hard working average "jo" american deserves standard cost of living increases. With a few tweeks of the current contract language and yearly bumps in salary I feel we can all do well (that includes the companies).

Unlike a few of our peers I certainly hope very few of us are interested in giving in to the dangling carrot of fast jets and hopefull growth.

 

[QCappy]

Unlike a few of our peers I certainly hope very few of us are interested in giving in to the dangling carrot of fast jets and hopefull growth.

We have jets?.......Oh, is that what I deadheaded on the other day?

 

[inbound]

To the G@Jets boys and girls in here:

The remaining members of your union (Republic, Horizon, etc.) do not want you. ALPA hates you. And I hope you burn in hell. Enjoy working for a company that is and WILL BE substandard in every aspect. And when you cry and complain one day (as we know you will) no one will care. You'll only be getting what you deserve. Enjoy.

PERFECT!!I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER!!!

 

[TSA Pilot]

Thanks for the support QX! :beer:

 

[ultrarunner]

I still think it's pretty darn funny that the moderators are still sensoring G0....

pretty funny

 

[regionaltard]

Wrong union, and ten years too late. Don't forget that ALPO wanted to organize those mutts too. Still, it's nice to see someone taking a stand and speaking on the record, even if it is an empty gesture.

 

[temcgrew]

Of course ALPA wanted to organize them, just not the way you imply. The proper way was to have TSA get the flying and one pilot list, with contractual language which prohibited our "holding" company from doing this again.
Unfortunately, 75% of Trans States Pilots didn't think it was important to set the example to the industry that companies cannot get away with something like this. Being a TSA pilot, I was very upset at the outcome of how our union leaders got the contract shut down. This happened at a time when the industry took an ubrupt turn for the worse and now we have to negotiate a new contract in this environment.

At first, it was the companies fault. The end result now is the fault of the TSA MEC.

Thanks guys for all of the hard work you did that put us and other companies in the present situation.

Yes, I was part of the 25% that voted for the contract that would have put an end to this B.S., Just wait for some of the responses to this post to see how I was treated for my opinion, which now we all know was right.

To all of the QX pilots and any others that might be affected by G0Jet, I'd like to personally say that I am sorry. If the MEC at my company had any class, they would do the same.

 

[redbook]

Of course ALPA wanted to organize them, just not the way you imply. The proper way was to have TSA get the flying and one pilot list, with contractual language which prohibited our "holding" company from doing this again.
Unfortunately, 75% of Trans States Pilots didn't think it was important to set the example to the industry that companies cannot get away with something like this. Being a TSA pilot, I was very upset at the outcome of how our union leaders got the contract shut down. This happened at a time when the industry took an ubrupt turn for the worse and now we have to negotiate a new contract in this environment.

At first, it was the companies fault. The end result now is the fault of the TSA MEC.

Thanks guys for all of the hard work you did that put us and other companies in the present situation.

Yes, I was part of the 25% that voted for the contract that would have put an end to this B.S., Just wait for some of the responses to this post to see how I was treated for my opinion, which now we all know was right.

To all of the QX pilots and any others that might be affected by G0Jet, I'd like to personally say that I am sorry. If the MEC at my company had any class, they would do the same.

you are so wrong and misguided. Why fight g0jet then, if you are willing to become g0jet? If we had extended the contract which was negotiated in the 1990's and was marginal then, and extended that pos until 2012 at the earliest?

Just go to g0jet if you want to fly those airplanes for such a miserable contract. 75% of tsa pilots took a stand. You are the one without class for slinging mud like you are and then whining "just wait until you see some of these responses...." No class, and no spine.

 

[theo]

you are so wrong and misguided. Why fight g0jet then, if you are willing to become g0jet? If we had extended the contract which was negotiated in the 1990's and was marginal then, and extended that pos until 2012 at the earliest?

Just go to g0jet if you want to fly those airplanes for such a miserable contract. 75% of tsa pilots took a stand. You are the one without class for slinging mud like you are and then whining "just wait until you see some of these responses...." No class, and no spine.

Funny how you zealots keep talking about how bad it is at Go Jet yet I never see anyone from Go Jet complaining about the conditions there. Just appears to be more lies and propaganda designed to keep people from going there....almost as futile and infantile as the jumpseat lists. Time for you guys to grow up and get a life. You lost (or chose not to partcipate) on this one so move on.

 

[BoilerUP]

I've heard stories from three different pilots (CHQ, AWAC & Shuttle) about how GJ pilots hide their IDs, don't talk much in the crew van, and generally look nervous walking around ORD. One even said "They look scared or something." Hearing this from three seperate people, over the course of a month, who fly for different airlines speaks volumes as to the atmosphere of the GJ pilot group.

Everybody I know at TSA is pissed, at least as pissed as Mesa pilots; most want to strike on principal alone if released. I can see Hulie easily giving GJ up to ALPA in Section 6 if it makes financial sense to him. I just hope those bastards don't get DOH (but I know they will)...

 

[h25b]

Funny how you zealots keep talking about how bad it is at GJ yet I never see anyone from GJ complaining about the conditions there. Just appears to be more lies and propaganda designed to keep people from going there....almost as futile and infantile as the jumpseat lists. Time for you guys to grow up and get a life. You lost (or chose not to partcipate) on this one so move on.

Exactly... I love the folklore of turned around ID's, muffled "Gateway" callsigns, and crews hiding from TSA pilots. All of it complete BS ...

I flew from coast to coast last week and heard numerous "Gateway" callsigns clearly spoken...

 

[spiffomatic]

Funny how you zealots keep talking about how bad it is at GJ yet I never see anyone from GJ complaining about the conditions there. Just appears to be more lies and propaganda designed to keep people from going there....almost as futile and infantile as the jumpseat lists. Time for you guys to grow up and get a life. You lost (or chose not to partcipate) on this one so move on.

Theo - you so miss the point that I want to throw up a little. I don't pay enough attention here to know if you work for GJ, but the pilots working there have effectively slid a knife into the gut of TSA pilots to get a leg up DIRECTLY at the TSA pilot's expense. Don't feel like putting in your time and moving up in seniority and QOL at a legitimate (allbeit crappy) company? No problem - come to our sister company and skip all of that to quickly gain a high seniority. Just don't look too far down the road at the implications of doing that - your own future of crap pay and work rules, and the far more significant and constant threat of whipsaw. There's no propaganda here - just a clear and direct dagger in the heart of a company's employees by their own management. I have know many TSA friends who have abandoned ship to what previously would be considered parallel moves to other regionals. Sadly it's really the only way they may regain a reasonable career track in aviation. With the way pay already is at regionals, it sickens me when someone's gotta go back to 1st year pay AGAIN at another regional because of the unscrupulous behavior of TSA/GJ management. That's the main point here - pilots deserve a fighting chance at a viable and enjoyable CAREER - not a mercenary-like constant backstabbing for a short-term advantage - do that a few times and you're pushing 50 year old with <100k in savings.

living the dream baby.

 

[theo]

Theo - you so miss the point that I want to throw up a little. I don't pay enough attention here to know if you work for GJ, but the pilots working there have effectively slid a knife into the gut of TSA pilots to get a leg up DIRECTLY at the TSA pilot's expense. Don't feel like putting in your time and moving up in seniority and QOL at a legitimate (allbeit crappy) company? No problem - come to our sister company and skip all of that to quickly gain a high seniority. Just don't look too far down the road at the implications of doing that - your own future of crap pay and work rules, and the far more significant and constant threat of whipsaw. There's no propaganda here - just a clear and direct dagger in the heart of a company's employees by their own management. I have know many TSA friends who have abandoned ship to what previously would be considered parallel moves to other regionals. Sadly it's really the only way they may regain a reasonable career track in aviation. With the way pay already is at regionals, it sickens me when someone's gotta go back to 1st year pay AGAIN at another regional because of the unscrupulous behavior of TSA/GJ management. That's the main point here - pilots deserve a fighting chance at a viable and enjoyable CAREER - not a mercenary-like constant backstabbing for a short-term advantage - do that a few times and you're pushing 50 year old with <100k in savings.

living the dream baby.

No I don't miss the point at all. I just don't agree with it. Go Jet is no different than any other Regional Airline. Each of them exists to fly for a major airline. So many of them are doing flying that at some point in the past was done by a different Regional Airline. Everybody does everybody elses flying. Go Jet exists because the owner of TSA which is a holding company decided to start another airline, which was perfectly within their rights to do so. They offered the flying opportunity to TSA pilots (even though they did not have to) the TSA pilots voted it down ( my guess is the local MEC told them to and probably told them they would get a better offer if they did). Ultimatly Go Jet moved on and the TSA pilots blew their opportunity to corral this flying.

Life is full of choices, TSA pilots chose not to take the flying when offered(their right) TSH chose not to continue talking to the TSA MEC (thier right)and many pilots have chosen to work at Go Jet (their right). What we see is a failed strategy on the part of the TSA MEC, and the sour grapes that go along with it. You zealots keep barking up the wrong tree. If you want to make life better at TSA than change your failed MEC leadership. If you want to make life better in the airline buisness generally than buy some tickets, when the economy turns around and airlines are profitable again on a regular basis then all pilots will benefit, until then you best try to hold on to what you got cause the abuse is not over yet.

 

[rtmcfi]

No I don't miss the point at all. I just don't agree with it. GJ is no different than any other Regional Airline. Each of them exists to fly for a major airline. So many of them are doing flying that at some point in the past was done by a different Regional Airline. Everybody does everybody elses flying. GJ exists because the owner of TSA which is a holding company decided to start another airline, which was perfectly within their rights to do so. They offered the flying opportunity to TSA pilots (even though they did not have to) the TSA pilots voted it down ( my guess is the local MEC told them to and probably told them they would get a better offer if they did). Ultimatly GJ moved on and the TSA pilots blew their opportunity to corral this flying.

Life is full of choices, TSA pilots chose not to take the flying when offered(their right) TSH chose not to continue talking to the TSA MEC (thier right)and many pilots have chosen to work at GJ (their right). What we see is a failed strategy on the part of the TSA MEC, and the sour grapes that go along with it. You zealots keep barking up the wrong tree. If you want to make life better at TSA than change your failed MEC leadership. If you want to make life better in the airline buisness generally than buy some tickets, when the economy turns around and airlines are profitable again on a regular basis then all pilots will benefit, until then you best try to hold on to what you got cause the abuse is not over yet.

There is a difference between GJ pukes and the rest of the regional industry. The only regional pilots that GJ vermin resemble are the Freedom A-listers. The GJ folks made a conscious decision to hose their peers. Some will suffer no consequence for it, others will get their just deserts. All of them hang their head in shame, and no matter how it is spun, they all know at the end of the day they are rightfully despised by their peers.

 

[spiffomatic]

No I don't miss the point at all. I just don't agree with it. GJ is no different than any other Regional Airline.

This is completely incorrect Theo, and the facts need to stay out there.

GJ is VERY VERY different than every other regional airline - original freedom excepted. There's a difference between fair competition between two different companies in a capitalistic market, and a company exploiting a very debatable contractual loophole (that was deemed legal, but probably should not have, following the precedent set at CHQ/Republic - either way, it was morally and ethically questionable). Do YOU want to work for a company that has a history of strong-arming its employees to gain any advantage, or one that at least attempts to level with its employees? It's sort of like expecting a sound relationship with a woman who picked you up at a bar - and you later found out was already solidly married - not gonna happen.

Do YOU want to work for a company that will likely turn around and do the same to you, filtering flying back and forth between two competing entities to keep costs sub-walmart low? They've already reset many of their costs to year 1 payscale. What a great idea!! Do YOU want a career there??? Do YOU RESPECT what they've done? Is this HONORABLE business or is it snake oil and shady deals? Better start shopping at wal-mart and polish up that greeter resume so you can work there at age 60, because if you turn a blind eye to a company doing this to it's employees, you effectively approve of it.

Seriously Theo, do you work there?

 

[regionaltard]

No I don't miss the point at all. I just don't agree with it. GJ is no different than any other Regional Airline.

Nobody could be that ignorant. This reeks of either ************************* scum or some junior associate at Ford & Harrison having some fun on her lunch hour.

 

[redbook]

Nobody could be that ignorant. This reeks of either ************************* scum or some junior associate at Ford & Harrison having some fun on her lunch hour.

there are about five posters on this board who keep stirring the g0jet pot and defending the backstabbing alter ego whipsaw airline.

theo, h25b and a few other losers who claim not to work at g0jet, and then a few true scumbags like fuelflow, flihigh, and whatever new name they come up with.

The word is out and their incessant yapping about "zealots" and "try a new tactic" , or "we are just doing whatever one else is, lowering the bar" wins over no new supporters.

 

[h25b]

there are about five posters on this board who keep stirring the g0jet pot and defending the backstabbing alter ego whipsaw airline.

Um... Care to show us all any thread that we've started on the GJ topic ??? You can't, because there are none.

 

[redbook]

Um... Care to show us all any thread that we've started on the GJ topic ??? You can't, because there are none.

No but as soon as someone posts further news about the few scumbag g0jet pilots being further marginalized by the industry, you are quick to post your tired and weak rhetoric.

 

[theo]

No but as soon as someone posts further news about the few scumbag g0jet pilots being further marginalized by the industry, you are quick to post your tired and weak rhetoric.

Notice how the zealots never try to argue any facts. They always resort to name calling and pleas for people to ignore any one who posts an opinion different than their own?

 

[redbook]

Notice how the zealots never try to argue any facts. They always resort to name calling and pleas for people to ignore any one who posts an opinion different than their own?

and all you do is say black is white and white is black.

You work for an alter ego whipsaw scumbag carrier. You thought nobody in the industry would notice, you were wrong.

FACTS.
Nobody can argue facts.