Quiet at NJ what about Options?

[Fozzy]

And that is why SCOPE is so very important.

 

[Ihaveflown]

Flex buying NJ? Your right that is funny. But I think Bombardier has some policy about being profitable and having their employees enjoy where they work

Bombardier is much like Raytheon. They are about numbers. Forget about making the employees enjoy there job. If they did care about their employees then those two organizations would be very profitable.

 

[GEXDriver]

I'm not sure what it means, but the happiest crews in the FBO seem to be the CS crews, next the Flex crews, followed by the Options crews with the NJA crews in dead last. Just lately though, it looks like the Options guys are trying to take that position from NJA. It's too bad everybody can't have a good deal.

 

[Live4flyng]

My take on a NJA and Flops merge (aquisition). Warren Buffet's main entity (Berkshire Hathaway) is essentially a very expensive mutual fund. He diversifies for the invester and they only have to buy one stock. When Warren bought FSI, he didn't call it "FSI a division of NetJets". Why not buy out Options and keep the two separate? Let them compete, if NJA wins, Buffett wins, if Options wins, Buffett wins.

This is one of the goofiest things I have heard yet. In one sentence you say Berkshire Hathaway is a very expensive mutual fund. In another, you say Uncle Buffet diversifies for investors so they only have to buy one stock. They you say it would make sense to buy Options as if it is some way to hedge the bet. Ever heard of earnings, earnings growth, sales, profit margins and ROE? They play a huge factor in that so called mutual fund you are talking about.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

Everybody knows that Raytheon has always had Options for sell and TA for sale before that. The question is: Why would Santuli want to buy Options?

 

[Grim Reaper]

BH B shares. Well guys, the news that comes with the info on BH B shares has the share holders a bit pixxed. Seems that NJA in back in the RED according to the literature. (Yes, I know, the lit can say whatever.) Oh well!!

 

[Xdriver]

New HOT HOT Rumor today from some high up NJA management. In Jan Nja will take options new planes(800xp 400xp) + those pilots who fly those planes. The old planes and pilots going to EJM. Options selling the G-IV, X and CL601.

This will all happen in Jan sometime with a huge announcement. No idea how the pilots would end up on NJA senority list at this point.

 

[Frac Daddy]

New HOT HOT Rumor today from some high up NJA management. In Jan Nja will take options new planes(800xp 400xp) + those pilots who fly those planes. The old planes and pilots going to EJM. Options selling the G-IV, X and CL601.

This will all happen in Jan sometime with a huge announcement. No idea how the pilots would end up on NJA senority list at this point.

Interesting rumor. If true, the Options pilots that fly the old stuff are screwed. Old aircraft would probably be sold off as the contracts expire, then......? If this is true, of course.

 

[hawkercpt]

Been at Options almost 5 years. The "merger", "buyout", "aquisition" rumors have been running rampid. I have to throw the BS flag on this one. Prove me wrong.

Who is this "high management" guy?

 

[gunfyter]

Looks like BS.

 

[NJAFracPilot]

BH B shares. Well guys, the news that comes with the info on BH B shares has the share holders a bit pixxed. Seems that NJA in back in the RED according to the literature. (Yes, I know, the lit can say whatever.) Oh well!!

I don't get it. I read your post then looked up the latest BK 10Q; it says we're profitable.

Revenues from flight services in 2004 exceeded revenues in the corresponding 2003 periods by $174 million (28%) for the third quarter and $479 million (27%) for the first nine months, reflecting higher flight operations and simulator service revenue, as well as increases in aircraft sales. Increased training revenues in 2004 were attributed to an 11% increase in simulator usage, primarily from corporate aviation and regional airline customers, offset by reduced revenues from government customers. Revenues from flight operations in 2004 increased $104 million (34.0%) for the third quarter and $271 million (31.0%) for the first nine months due to higher usage of larger cabin aircraft and a slight increase in rates.

Pre-tax earnings of the flight services segment for the first nine months of 2004 totaled $117 million compared to pre-tax earnings of $63 million for the first nine months of 2003. Pre-tax earnings from training increased $24 million for the first nine months of 2004 over 2003 due to the aforementioned revenue increases and from relatively small increases in certain fixed operating costs, including salaries and depreciation. The pre-tax results from aircraft sales and flight operations increased by about $30 million during the first nine months of 2004 over the first nine months of 2003. The improvement was primarily due to an increase in aircraft sales and an increase in the volume and efficiency of flight operations.​

​

 

[learflyer]

Been at Options almost 5 years. The "merger", "buyout", "aquisition" rumors have been running rampid. I have to throw the BS flag on this one. Prove me wrong.

Who is this "high management" guy?

Well, if you've been at Options for 5 yrs, than you were around during the RTA deal. There was no BS flag on that one!

 

[hawkercpt]

That one made sense. EJ and Options doesn't make sense.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Flex and Ops makes sense...
Ops getting split apart (Citation fleet to CitationShares, New Hawkers and Bjets to EJA, everything else to Swift (?)) makes sense...
That this is all speculation...I imagine steady as she goes. Like someone said, the biggest proof that an event is not happening is hearing a rumor about it.

 

[guido411]

New HOT HOT Rumor today from some high up NJA management. In Jan Nja will take options new planes(800xp 400xp) + those pilots who fly those planes. The old planes and pilots going to EJM. Options selling the G-IV, X and CL601.

X,

Not saying you're wrong, but explain the reasoning behind the liqudiation of the airplanes? In the recent company meeting JN stated that the Gulfstream is our most PROFITABLE program. We would continue to support this program for at least 2 years. Also, why would we be still aquiring the X and training our pilots if this were true. Why would Raytheon care about cleaning up the inventory that a possible future buyer would not want? If I were Raytheon I'd sell ALL the assets and **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** the buyer, if they don't want something THEY can sell it. The 601 is another story, we're not training our pilots, using contract work (that make a sh!tload more than our pilots do), and letting our pilots LATERAL BID out of the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** things, much to the shigrin of other large cabin guys that have never been allowed to do it? What does this seniority number mean anyway?

 

[AceCrackshot]

As far as the lateral bid goes, that's been the most fair thing the company has done in a while...in the 121 side contract language like this is known "following flying."

The Challengers are going away, they are being replaced with Legacies. Those guys should be allowed to follow the flying (and pay) that most closely mimics what they've been doing.

If that's what didn't happen in the past, well, I think that this is a much fairer way to do it.

The per diem thing on the other hand...

 

[guido411]

Ace,

Thank our bean counters for taking the burden of per diem away from us during vacation and stby. They're only trying to protect us from the IRS boogie monster. That and fatten the reserves for the slaughter.

BTW, you really think Flex and Options makes sense? Seems like the LEAST likely buyer to me. We have NO Bombarider products to ease any transition and they have NO money to buy us with. Seems far fetched.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The first question a pilot is going to ask during a merger is: Where am I on the totem pole?

NJ is union, FO is not. What would happen to the Options pilots as far as seniority etc. etc etc.?

Even if FO were union the question also needs to be asked... Is this transaction an asset transfer or a merger?

It sounds to me like this would be an asset transfer as NJA does not deal in the used aircraft market (maybe a place at EJM but that's not NJA... different seniority list). A true merger would take all assets and all pilots and that's not what this sounds like from rumblings I've heard. Of course this is all circumspect and rhetoric until an annoucement.

Whether FO and NJA are both union defines if there is intergration language and/or rights for both parties. That being said, TWA and AA were both Union and look where it got the TWA pilots. Nowhere. The surviving company is usually the one dictating the terms Union or not. I know that Alegheney/Mowhawk says what it says but to FO AL/MO is nothing more than a folk tale without a Union to recognize it's meaning.

 

[AceCrackshot]

The real problem with mergers is guys getting greedy. The answer is fences. Good fences make good neighbors...look at the Krazo/TW merger. Now the Krazo guys swear that they got screwed, but at the end of the day it represented one of the fairest mergers around.

Fence people off on the equipment they bring, and don't think of screwing your now new buddy to get a quicker upgrade (usually a dream) or leveraging them as furlough bait. People have long memories, and the NJ guys are the ones who lose when divided pilot group emerges from an ill conceived staple.

And you paid your $600/year to get a CBA, not for the right to tube your fellow worker.

 

[gunfyter]

I hear its Raytheon that is buying NetJets. BRK wants out.