Quick pinnacle upgrades?

[20sx]

I know, this has been talked about before. I'm planning to start there next month, with the hope that after about 5 months on the line I'll have the time to upgrade. However, it worries me that 2 airplanes are leaving a month and that the 900's are coming only at 1 a month starting in Nov. Does anyone think the quick upgrades will be possible once they are in negative growth (at least for the next 7-8 months)?

 

[industrystd]

I was to start there last month and they told me you have to have 100hr in the right seat to bid for a ca seat. Also if you are trying to get msp, they are giving 17 planes out of msp to mesaba. So you might not be able to hold msp in a few months. I decided not to go there after getting an offer at Compass. I think its a much better deal then pinnacle. I had been at another regional for almost 4yrs with no upgrade in sight. You can guess which one. If you have more than 4000hrs you should get a call from compass soon if you put your stuff in now. You will most likely upgrade faster at compass any how. Plus you will be able to hold msp right away. Any questions PM me.

 

[Windsor]

they are hiring a lot of high timers. and by a lot, i mean 80% of the new hire classes in the last month or so are guys with lots of CRJ time from other carriers that are here for the quick upgrade. I'm guessing that the CA slots are going to be filled up by the end of the year. the 100 hrs in the right seat is now officially in writing.
as far as planes leaving, suposedly "big red" told "little red" they arnt going to take their planes away quite so quickly. The 900's are coming, but nothing is final yet as far as base or seniority. i think the bid comes out soon.

 

[i fly boxes]

They could take away 40 of our planes and you probably still could upgrade

 

[Smarta$$]

For gods sake, DO NOT COME HERE!

 

[DTWFO]

For gods sake, DO NOT COME HERE!

AMEN!!

 

[Dumb Pilot]

For gods sake, DO NOT COME HERE!

Why not? You did, Is not like you didn't know the conditions, pay or the way the company treats the pilots, It's always been a well known fact. He is looking for the same thing that you were looking for, 121 Jet PIC time. I understand the conditions of the job (I was there for six years) but to tell people "Don't do what I did" specially when because of going to PCL, now you are applying to you dream jobs. They are looking for the same thing as you, the shortest time to be able to mark "boxes" on applications not for their retirement job
Smarta$$ and DTWFO. You guys spend too much time talking trash about the company that has put you in the position to be able to mark the "box"

 

[20sx]

Believe me, I'm fairly nervous about my quality of life tanking. I've alreay put in 3 or 4 years as an FO....with nothing to show for it. I need that box to be checked so I can move on to a career job. Like many others out there, I've been burned by this career before. I'm hoping Pinnacle will give me what I need before it sucks out my soul.

 

[PCL_128]

Dumb Pilot, I understand where you're coming from, but I think the PCL guys are trying to steer people away so that they can apply extra pressure on management in negotiations. The more people that leave, and the fewer people that apply, the more trouble that Phildo and his minions will have. Eventually, they'll have to settle the contract to attract pilots to keep the company in business.

 

[machaf]

Dumb Pilot, I understand where you're coming from, but I think the PCL guys are trying to steer people away so that they can apply extra pressure on management in negotiations. The more people that leave, and the fewer people that apply, the more trouble that Phildo and his minions will have. Eventually, they'll have to settle the contract to attract pilots to keep the company in business.

Finally.. Someone who gets it! T.O.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Finally.. Someone who gets it! T.O.

Get what? That two individuals that post negativity continuously start sounding like the boy that cried wolf?
Just read this thread, the more they say "NO" the more people ask "can I get MEM right after training" It is NOT on FI that the PCL contract will be fixed. The pilots in this industry have to come to a realization that without each other (NWAMEC, XJMEC, and PCLMEC) there will be NO contract worth while because there will always be some starry eyed punk that will do anything just to fly for $20/h.

the more trouble that Phildo and his minions will have. Eventually, they'll have to settle the contract to attract pilots to keep the company in business.

I understand what you are saying PCL-128 But you have been around enough to know that if you hit them with the lights at the right angle, you can see the strings and if you follow the strings the other end is in Eagan. We have to realize that the respective MEC's from the red tail system (that applies to every airline for that matter) have to start working together on this, without the support of ALL pilots under the brand and the backup of ALPA central we are just playing catch up with individuals that have great resources to develop strategies. The system of different MEC's working on their own and in the blind with respect to what the other MEC's are doing doesn't work, the system of pilot volunteers developing strategies against big corporation that hire expert strategists doesn't work and they will always stay ahead a thousand paces
When ALPA threatens, management laughs because lately they just bend time after time. The governor of NYC for example, listens when the garbage collectors talk. Why? those folks really mean it when they say "You mess with one, you mess with all" You know what? I'm done getting worked up about it. I'm sure the inflatable rat will work for you, that is assuming that there is shame within the management ranks

 

[Smarta$$]

Dumb Pilot, I understand where you're coming from, but I think the PCL guys are trying to steer people away so that they can apply extra pressure on management in negotiations. The more people that leave, and the fewer people that apply, the more trouble that Phildo and his minions will have. Eventually, they'll have to settle the contract to attract pilots to keep the company in business.

Bingo!!!!! and Bingo again!!!!!

Sorry that my posts have hidden motives. However, isn't it possible that some people came here and regret that decision. Those same people could legitamately be trying to steer people away from here, and rightfully so.

Dumb pilot, Thank you for helping phildo recruit pilots so that he does not have to come to a fair agreement with us.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Dumb pilot, Thank you for helping phildo recruit pilots so that he does not have to come to a fair agreement with us.

I'll be as successful on achieving that as you will working the contract from the FI angle. Please

 

[CoATP]

The real bust inthe chops (or lower) to PT and Co. will be when they have problems staffing and running the Delta operation. They are salivating over future chances for bigger bonuses. They are trying to staff at 5-1 for that. There needs to be a rate set by arbitration for the 900 (read small increase for the a/c 2%?) and people willing to go west for no $$$ for them to get it effectively off the ground. Everyone who stays away from 9E and every CA upgrade postponement puts more and more pressure on them to actually negotiate.

If the Delta service is as "good" as the NW service there will not be more a/c for that end and it will be red tail of the dog forever.

 

[mayoplane]

RSV is bad

For gods sake, DO NOT COME HERE!

Hi Todd!

--------------------------------------

If you didn't want people to come to PNCL because you want to send the management a message, then say so. You don't have to lie to the people on the board and tell them the false information.

PNCL contract sucks, but some brand-new FOs are getting 15 days off, and a lot of senior people 17,18 days off, that's actually nice. As a RSV Captain, your life will not be very nice, but that's same everywhere you go.

 

[20sx]

What, someone lie on here?!?!?! Every now and then, I do check the posting history of people on here. I've read his strategy a number of posts again about not going there. While he didn't really lie, he didn't really tell all....
I know it's going to suck and so does everyone else. Management has some number in their head of how many flights it's okay to cancel. The penalty must still be less than the price of a new contract. I don't know how bad it has to get until they are serious about a new contract, but it seems many companies can get by on ridiculously low pilots and still eek by.

Thanks for all replies and PM, I just want what ALL people who go to Pinnacle want--PIC.

 

[dondk]

I know, this has been talked about before. I'm planning to start there next month, with the hope that after about 5 months on the line I'll have the time to upgrade. However, it worries me that 2 airplanes are leaving a month and that the 900's are coming only at 1 a month starting in Nov. Does anyone think the quick upgrades will be possible once they are in negative growth (at least for the next 7-8 months)?

my .02 to make this interesting.
PNCL has to have negative growth, it is fact not fiction. Why? well, they cannot staff the current 129 aircraft, XJ can't take deliveries because they cannot staff it either. In back room discussions the 17 leaving are not leaving at the rate initially suggested. They may not leave at all.

Initial (initial) DAL staffing is 8:1 and then 5:1. The 900's were to start at one a month, although in more back room discussions, it was 1 per month for 2-3 months then 4-5 per month. Last one on the property probably by April with more behind them.

Staffing... PNCL lost about 250 pilots so far this year, they are trying to interview 30 per week, hire maybe 15 if they are lucky. of the 15, maybe 10 show to class. Of the 10 that make it to class, 7-8 actually make it to the line. If you do the math, they cannot staff. Negative growth will be necessary to balance the staffing.

the better question to ask, how many PNCL pilots are flying over 90 hours, how many time out in a month, how many are JM daily?

As for days off for the junior guys, anyone who has been at PNCL for more than a year knows it is hit or miss. some months had great days off, then 2 months later the top line is 16 days off. Quickly how some forget the 10 day off lines with 32 hour sits in BGR or MLI.

the other factor is the mentor program, they should be able to turn those out starting in nov. Once that starts and depending on participation, the "quick" upgrade may climb again, not too high, but maybe just out of reach for a few more months.

if you have the time, I would consider other options, some have been mentioned. Unless you live in domicile and have an "in" at your next airline already. Also, note that some of those hiring have already dropped or have no PIC requirement.

 

[BOHICAgain]

there will be NO contract worth while because there will always be some starry eyed punk that will do anything just to fly for $20/h

Yeah thats the exact reason why there is no new contract blame the young guys..every guy out here looking to start their airline carrer should stay and flight instruct until every single airline 1st year pay reaches 30 an hour... how about during contract negotiations we stand up and fight for better 1st year pay instead of just thinking about what am I getting or what am I loosing

 

[Smarta$$]

You think I am being to negative about pinnacle? If you come here, it will take 2.5 months to make it through OE, because of reserve another 2-3 months to get the 100 hours of FO time before you can bid captain, another 2 months for a class date, 2.5 months to get all the way through captain OE, BEFORE YOU GET CAPTAIN PAY! That is 9-10 months at 20.73 dollars per hour. On reserve you will most likely not break guarantee and not much more in training either. So 9-10 months at 1554 dollars (give or take) a month. Then you will spend the next 2-3 years on reserve.

That all assumes that you have 3400TT, 1400ME and 900 turbine before you get here. If you have less, it will take much longer.

Also, we are the lowest paid jet FO's in the industry. Period. With no contract in sight, at all. On top of being the lowest paid, you will wait 14.5 months to get second year pay, 26.5 months to get third year pay 38.5 months for fourth and so on. Your yearly raise does not take affect until 12 mos from your checkride EVERY YEAR. Compare that to most large regionals. They get an extra 2.5 months EVERY year out of EVERY pilot at last years pay.

Our pilots have had no raise in over 3 years, again no contract, our management lies all the time, they forced pref bid on us even though our agreement prohibits pref bid at this time and then went on to brag about implimenting it(in a DOT filling, I believe),

Break

We are using money that Pinnacle pilots and other pinnacle employees earned this corporation to finance 15-30 shiny new planes for another company that will have no benifit to our employees, all the while telling us that there is not enough money in the till to pay us anything but industry bottom wages, Inside management trading like you can't believe(mostly selling right now), bleeding money to NWA for cancellations, Violated our agreement blatently with regard to vacation slide, no min day, no duty rigs, NO TRIP DROPS OR TRADES BEING APROVED, and much much more.

Dondk, pinnacle needs negative growth. But you said they may not give our planes to Mesaba. I know these are not your decisions, but they are contradictory. Personally, I think the planes will go to Mesaba, But maybe later or at a slower pace.

The fact that most smart pilots are totally avoiding 9E is the only leverage we have to get an agreement. Any 9E pilot that refers another pilot for the incentive is just shouting us all in the foot.

Sorry if you disagree, but I dont think I am being "too" negative.

For those that think about comming here just for the quick PIC, it only takes an attack or a recession to make you stay here alot longer than you planned. That happened to alot of people not to many years ago.

Personally, I think Mesaba is the much better bet right now. Lots going for Mesaba and upgrades will be very short soon.

 

[DTWFO]

Why not? You did, Is not like you didn't know the conditions, pay or the way the company treats the pilots, It's always been a well known fact. He is looking for the same thing that you were looking for, 121 Jet PIC time. I understand the conditions of the job (I was there for six years) but to tell people "Don't do what I did" specially when because of going to PCL, now you are applying to you dream jobs. They are looking for the same thing as you, the shortest time to be able to mark "boxes" on applications not for their retirement job
Smarta$$ and DTWFO. You guys spend too much time talking trash about the company that has put you in the position to be able to mark the "box"

Sorry, but I have to respond to this one. First of all, I don't "spend too much time" on Flight Info. In fact, I rarely post on this website unless I can either help someone out with an answer that I have personal knowledge of, or to steer someone clear of something that they will regret later. You've posted more than twice as many times on here in the last year than I have over the last four years, so maybe it's you that is "spending too much time on here". I could really care less what anyone thinks on here because most of this is total garbage. However, when someone asks a question about a company that I have personal knowledge of, I feel obligated to tell them what it's really like...not some sugar coated version that will get someone into a situation that they will regret later. When I came to Pinnacle I did NOT know how the pilots were treated and the way the company viewed things. That's why I feel the need to at least tell people the truth. If you don't believe me, or you think I'm just making all this stuff up, or you think "it's really not that bad", then come here...I don't care. You'll find out soon enough for yourself what it's really like...that I guarentee! It's called learning from your mistakes, and if I can save someone from making a mistake, then I will post on here and share my experience. There is no reason to go to a place like Pinnacle in todays market. There are better airlines out there that will treat you much better and also have quick upgrades. Good luck!