Quick EMB question...

[Propsync]

Express Jet was ahead of me coming into MKE a couple of hours ago and stated their minimum speed in icing conditions is 190 clean. They said they would slow and configure 3 miles from the marker. I don't know the airplane at all and was wondering if this is normal. I guess to me it seems high because of the heated leading edge. Thanks

 

[dnkt]

any time we go below 180 we go flaps 9. if were in icing we keep it at 190 so we dont put the flaps down and get ice all over a non heated surface. we hold off on them as long as possible.

 

[erj-145mech]

Propsync, if you were behind them, were you concerned that you'd be over taking them at 190?

 

[AV82SKI]

Expressjet has a minimum speed in icing conditions of 200 kts clean and 190 kts with flaps 9. Sounds like the crew was doing exactly as we are trained to do. Fly at 190 kts and configure at the marker inbound.

It is typical for us to fly at 190 kts (in icing conditions) and descend with flaps 9 and the speed break hanging out. In the Embraer, in icing conditions, N1 increases to supply the bleed air for the extra wing and tail heat. So it makes it difficult to descend at any speed below 190kts.

Using flaps 22 in icing conditions will get ugly in no time at all. I have personally seen the results once on the ground. I was amazed at the amount of ice on the leading edge of the flaps. This was before the limitation and we became test pilots that day. This is the reason for the limitation.

 

[Propsync]

Propsync, if you were behind them, were you concerned that you'd be over taking them at 190?

I expected at least one of those responses. Not in our speed machine. Most of those that have been here for a while can go 250 until 2-3 outside a marker. In MKE's speed reduction world, it's mostly a non-factor. I was just curious, thanks for the responses.

 

[Terry Hunter]

So what do you guys do in ATC arrival areas like DTW where they commonly use 170 KIAS as the speed to the marker?

 

[erj-145mech]

Is there a speed restriction on the plate? ATC doesn't fly the airplane. In icing conditions, the appropriate reply would be "unable". ATC doesn't tell you what to do, they can only suggest, if they suggest, and you acknowlege, then you have to do what they suggested. If you do not accept the clearance, then they have to come up with an alternate solution. I got that from the manager at ZHU.

 

[rattler]

Most controllers are aware of the limitation, especially at the hubs. I did have this exact situation described at ORD last week. I said "we've entered icing conditions, and are unable 170 Knts, we need 190 Knts". We got a slight vector for spacing and then it was business as usuall. No big deal really.

 

[Turtlesfly]

the controllers are pretty knowledgable on this: if you are getting vectored at CLE in the winter weather, no doubt you'll be given 190 because the whole XJT RJ world is getting vectored at 190 along with you.