questions on europe

[cyork25]

Okay guys, we have a Lear 60 and the boss wants to take it to europe. I just wanted to find out what is required. We have RVSM, TCAS II with change 7, we have dual UNS-1C's, we have two HF's, what else do we need? Both pilots are typed. Where can I find a list of what we need to go over there? Thanks for your time.

 

[Partyfoul]

You need an MNPS and RVSM LOA. Also need FM immunity for VHF NAV's and Com's. BRNAV LOA or RNP-5. Also make sure Comm's are 8.33 MHZ capable. There are probably others I'm forgetting about but that comes to mind right now. Remember its easier than most make it out to be....

 

[LJ45]

if you can climb straight to FL 430 or FL450 do you still need MNPS ??
I was told no last time I went to Bermuda.

 

[cyork25]

okay, we are getting our MNPS and our RVSM LOA. We have 8.33 coms, what is FM immunity?

 

[LJ45]

406 ELT !

FM immunity , shows that your radios will not be affected by the radio station frequencies over there since they are closer to the Nav. freq. than here. You should be able to get something from Learjet or Collins to show your radios are ok. I don't think anyone will ask for this info.

 

[TGTVS]

You might want to look into importing the aircaft into the EU. If you travel from one EU member to the other, you are subject to VAT in those specific countries... Talk to the NBAA about it... HUGE fines may arise if you dont..

 

[G21Agoose]

Okay guys, we have a Lear 60 and the boss wants to take it to europe. I just wanted to find out what is required. We have RVSM, TCAS II with change 7, we have dual UNS-1C's, we have two HF's, what else do we need? Both pilots are typed. Where can I find a list of what we need to go over there? Thanks for your time.

It depends. Are you doing one trip or are you looking to base the a/c here in Europe?

 

[Partyfoul]

LJ45
You are correct that you do not need MNPS for Bermuda. MNPS airspace in NY oceanic does not include airspace south of 3830 North and west of 60 west. Everything else in Gander,Shanwick,Reykjavik,Santa Maria and New York CTA is MNPS from FL285 to FL420. Going straight to FL430 would fine as long as you don't have to descend back into it. I believe you can pre plan with ATC for non MNPS. Only a certain amount per day and outside RVSM airspace. Clear as mud.

 

[LJ45]

"Rockwell Collins recommends that FM immunity service bulletins be incorporated in 618M-3( ) and VHF-700( ) units at the same time as the 8.33 service bulletins. Installing FM Immunity service bulletins at the same time as 8.33 kHz service bulletin will save duplicated test times. The VHF-700A, 618M-4/4A, and VHF-900 are FM immunity compliant."

http://www.rockwellcollins.com/regulatory-information/page3316.html

Try this link for some info on the FM immunity stuff...

 

[G100driver]

You might want to look into importing the aircaft into the EU. If you travel from one EU member to the other, you are subject to VAT in those specific countries... Talk to the NBAA about it... HUGE fines may arise if you dont..

This is only the case if you are planning to fly within the EU with EU citizens for commerical purposes.

If you have never been to Europe before I suggest taking an international procedures course. You are required to do so every 2 years for operations within the EU anyhow so this will be good excuse. When asked ,ie SAFA check, you must provide documentation showing such training has occured. This trianing is to include,ICAO, JARs, MNPS, RVSM, RNP-5, and P-RNAV (if aircraft equipt and certified).

I went to www.trainati.com before my 1st international trip. I go every 2 years to stay current. Well worth the money.

Besides what was said above you will also need the following:

1. Enhanced Mode S transponder after March 31, 2007. If you have an elemtary Mode S you can get a case by exemption so long as you do not plan to fly over 30 hours a year within the EU.

2. A current HMU/GMU flight within the last 2 years. You can check to see if was registered with Euro-Control here: http://www.ecacnav.com/content.asp?PageID=66

If you are not registered you can have an HMU flight done over the continent or have ARINC do a GMU flight for you for around $2500 bucks.

I know that there are things that I have not mentioned or other folks have not said, but in any case you need to go to a formal training course.

Good luck.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

If you plan on landing in France you need visas. The current HMU/GMU should be covered by your RVSM LOA. For your first trip I strongly recommend a handler. Filing flight plans/slots can sometimes be a pain and its nice to have that taken care of. You need JEPPS. Wait as long as possible if you are getting trip kit. The Europe charts change all the time. Pay for the overnight shipping and get the latest ones.

 

[Diesel]

Having a handler such as air routing for flight planning to handling is a no brainer even if it's your 100'th time over there.

 

[vortex]

insurance!

 

[SCT]

An International Procedures Class.

 

[TGTVS]

Part 91 is considered commercial purposes in the EU so do your homework!!!

We use Universal weather out of Houston for our Flight planning and everything else you can think of...(Handlers, hotels, Transportion, permits) It cost some $$ but it will go off without a hitch.. I never had a screw up with them.. I cant say that for Jepp, Or Baseops. There both cheeper, but you get what you pay for..

 

[Mountain Troll]

Google a SAFO checklist, this will help with record keeping requirements. If you require corrective lenses for your medical have a spare pair within reach of you in cockpit. We always use large enough rafts or three so that if there were a raft failure, the others capacity will fit pax load. Make a file folder with good clean copies of all ac documents/ pilot medical & ATP to hand out at each stop if required. Did someone say take an experienced contract guy with you the first few trips?? Best wishes

 

[G100driver]

Part 91 is considered commercial purposes in the EU so do your homework!!!
.

I never said that it wasn't. Are you carring EU citizens is the key to VAT importing. Also, if the trip is private (owner occupied with guests), not corporate, then it is not considered commerical.

But never believe anything you read on the internet. Check it out yourself.

 

[G100driver]

The current HMU/GMU should be covered by your RVSM LOA. .

If you have a a letter that is more than 2 years old then it is not. You are not required to have an HMU/GMU flight to renew. The only source that you can be sure of for a SAFA check is: http://www.ecacnav.com/content.asp?PageID=66

If your airplane is not listed here then you do not meat the requirement for 2 year HMU/GMU monitering requirement.

 

[Tgaug6300]

I would at least make sure that the other pilot has experience in North Atlantic crossing, and Euro procedures. I would not want to make the trip as as a learning experience for both crew members. We make the trip every month in our operation, and we always send one of our more experienced pilots with someone who has never been over before. Just my .02

 

[con-pilot]

This is only the case if you are planning to fly within the EU with EU citizens for commercial purposes.

That is correct except the commercial purposes part. If you carry EU citizens in an US registered aircraft you really need to import the aircraft even if Part 91. In the UK there is no fee to import the aircraft. However, you need to have someone perform the import procedures and file the paperwork and they will charge for their services. The last airplane I had imported was a Falcon 50EX and the fee was around $5,000.00 USD. There are a number of companies that do this service, check with your handler for their suggestions.

If you plan on staying in the UK and the UK only, customs will provide you with a 'temporary import permit' good for a certain period time on arrival. This temporary permit is free and there is no charge by customs. Now the Brits claim that the temporary permit is good for all of the EU, however, candidly they will tell you not to try to use it France or Italy.

So I would strongly suggest that you arrange to get a import permit prior to leaving on your trip. It is not difficult and could save you a lot of money and grief later. One of the requirements are that the last departure point before landing in the UK be from a non-EU country. If coming from the US or Canada that is no problem, but if you land in Ireland for a fuel stop it will not suffice because Ireland is member of the EU. I have done this coming inbound from the US, Canada and once from Turkey.

Oh, and study the differences between FAA and ICAO rules, very important.