Questions for ATC controllers

[paulsalem]

Just to clairify, that post is a quote from a Don Brown, cloumn. He is a former Atlanta Center controler and Natca safety rep.

I did a poor job of quoting him in my response. The link goes to the column I copied the text from.

 

[hyper]

Wrong or not - required or not - stupid or not - matters not.

CYA would dictate you make the calls regardless.

Just 1 example: You get PD assignment and 5 minutes later start down but don't report cuz you're too cool for school. The controller has a deal because you got too close to traffic below you. Don't you think when they pull the tapes that the golden egg will be the fact that you didn't report leaving your altitude?

Classic nothing to lose and all to gain scenarios.

Mach 80 makes good points and questions but the reality check for any "should I?" scenario is to always picture yourself in a courtroom (at best-not dead) trying to justify why the feds should not violate you. "I did not make the call because they have radar and should have seen me" won't get you very far.

I'm never one of those "checking in", "with you", "out of" folks, but I try and remember to make every call that may be required, necessary or not, just to save my a$$ if nothing else.

 

[CA1900]

Q: Do controllers get as irritated as I do when that certain JetBlue pilot checks in, "Washington, JetBlue 123, flight level 370, GREAAAT DAAAY"?

<shudder>

My blood pressure went up 10 points just reading that. I don't think he knows how massive irritating that is.

 

[zonker234]

Think how irritating it must be for the guy or gal in the other seat on a 4 day having to listen to this idiot...swear to goodness I would give him every leg just so he would NOT work the radios!!

 

[Flyin2low]

VFR 1900's flying around the NE was pretty irritating too..

 

[ron burgundy]

Q: Do controllers get as irritated as I do when that certain JetBlue pilot checks in, "Washington, JetBlue 123, flight level 370, GREAAAT DAAAY"?

Probably not, since they don't have to listen to this guy all the way up or down the coast.

Followed him one day all the way to tpa. departed bos.

 

[cheater1239]

Just 1 example: You get PD assignment and 5 minutes later start down but don't report cuz you're too cool for school. The controller has a deal because you got too close to traffic below you. Don't you think when they pull the tapes that the golden egg will be the fact that you didn't report leaving your altitude?

when you accepted the PD clearance, you became the owner of that block of airspace vertically and if defined, laterally. descend to the bottom of that block now or later, it is still your airspace. no call required by the AIM because when you do descend you are not entering a "newly assigned altitude". it was your when you accepted the initial PD clearance.

 

[hyper]

Thanks cheater. While I agree with you, I'd rather make the call to cma especially if significant time has lapsed since the clearance 5, :10, :20?). If something should occur such as what I mentioned in the scenario, like most FAA regs/non-regs (open for litigious interpretation), any slick lawyer could cast doubt on what should and should not be. Takes me 5 seconds to make the call and it's more of a courteous reminder for the controller if nothing else.

If it saves him one day (and me) great. If not, well, at least I'm never "checkin' in, with ya, can we get direct, how's the rides, greaaaaaaat daaaaaay"....

 

[PurpleInMEM]

From the AIM Preface:

Flight Information Publication Policy

d. This publication, while not regulatory, provides information which reflects examples of operating techniques and procedures which may be requirements in other federal publications or regulations. It is made available solely to assist pilots in executing their responsibilities required by other publications.

If it's not required by CFR or some such nonsense, it's not required.

 

[SELCAL checks]

3. Do you find it a nuisance when you have given an aircraft a descent at pilot's discretion, he acknowleges it, but then call you back a few minutes later to tell he's leaving the original altitude? Seems like an unnecessary transmission. ( For pilots -- I know what the very outdated AIM says).

I usually don't make these calls, unless there is other traffic in the area below me. Twice in the last year a controller has amended our clearance after making this call. Too many new controllers these days making tons of mistakes.

4. Do you like getting a call from an aircraft when he enters his assigned holding? Seems redundant since you have radar. (For pilots--again, I know what's in the outdated AIM).

I make the call because of a conversation with a center controller one day. He said that often times in holding, non-radar procedures are used. So once I state I'm in the hold, he can employ non-radar separation. That's when it's important to state that you're vacating one altitude for another, because once you've vacated, he's going to step the next guy down, etc...

Most of those other useless, extraneous radio calls...... I don't make.