Questions about Requirements for IR

[cookmg]

Hello,

I was hoping I could get a couple of the regs clarified. Thanks for your time.

First, is it true that hood time from private pilot training can be applied towards the 40 hour instrument time requirement in part 61?

Second, since ATLEAST 10 hours of the 50 hour x-c PIC requirement must be in instrument training, can't all 50 hours be in instrument training?

Third, under part 61, isn't it true that you would meet the aeronautical experience requirement with as much as 20 of the 40 required hours using a flight training device?

Finally, if an FAA examiner questioned any of these on your flight test, what could you do?

Thanks Mike

 

[Timebuilder]

This belongs one spot down in the regs forum, but what the hey, I'll take a whack at it. Avbug will help me out if I screw up, I'm sure.

1) As far as I know, simulated instrument (hood) time counts, no matter when it was logged.

2) Sure, you could have 50 hours of instrument time. It's more likely, though, that the PIC cross country time includes the VFR flying that you have already done before you began your instrument training. So if you have 50 hours of hood time, that's great, but you will also have some VFR PIC cross country time. If you are referring to 61.64 (d) (1), they want to make sure that you have 10 hours in airplanes since your other time might be helo or airship time, and you are going for an instrument airplane rating, right?

3) Fifteen of the hours have to be in the aircraft category for which the rating is sought.

4) I'd get out 61.65 and go over the regs with him. But he won't likely ask about this unless your written test shows several codes that indicate that the regs are a "weak" area for you.

Okay?

 

[chrisdahut24]

If I'm not mistaken, any instrument time that counts as training towards your instrument rating must be given by a CFII. It is possible that the instrument time in the private was provided by someone who wasn't a CFII. Would it still count in that case towards the instrument? Something Ive never really thought about before.

 

[chrisdahut24]

aaah hell, just go 141! the requirements are a lot less stringent!

 

[Timebuilder]

If I'm not mistaken, any instrument time that counts as training towards your instrument rating must be given by a CFII. It is possible that the instrument time in the private was provided by someone who wasn't a CFII. Would it still count in that case towards the instrument? Something Ive never really thought about before.

You are mistaken. Only three hours of instruction from a CFII must be logged in the sixty days before the practical test. That same CFII must review your written test (if less that 100% was scored) and provide the signoff for the practical, and sign the back of the 8710.

 

[172driver]

If I'm not mistaken, any instrument time that counts as training towards your instrument rating must be given by a CFII

The 40 hr requirement is for instrument time not training . It can be achieved with a CFII, CFI, or a safety pilot. 20 hrs of it can indeed come in an FTD or sim.

See 61.195...any 'instrument training' toward the instrument rating must be given by a CFI-I.

This training includes not only the 3 hrs in 60 days but 15 hrs of instrument training given by an authorized instructor (CFI-I). The IFR X-C must also be done with a CFI-I as you must receive 'instrument training' toward the instrument rating on this flight.

 

[avbug]

Instrument time obtained prior to the private pilot certificate cannot be used toward the 40 hour requirement of the instrument rating, identified in 61.65(d)(2).

The instrument experience required for the instrument rating, while not all required to be training, must be "on the areas of operation" of 61.65. The FAA has held this to indicate that it must be after the private pilot certificate.

Further, instruction on training by reference to instruments for the private pilot certificate, as provided in 61.109(a)(3), does not count toward the required instrument instruction required for the instrument rating as found in 61.65(d)(2)(i).

Instruction on flight by reference to instruments required by the private pilot certificate is not instrument instruction, nor is it pertinent to the requirements for the instrument rating.

 

[cookmg]

thanks for the response guys.

AVBUG, what you state is what I was curious about. I expected that the FAA did not allow pre-private hood time to be used towards the 40 hour requirment. I, however, think the FAA (if that is in fact their true position) may be off a little. First, the training under the hood for the private license is all VERY pertinent to flying instruments. Obviously it doesn't go into the depth that IFR training provides, but attitude flying (including unusual attitude recoveries) is the backbone of all instrument flying right?

Also, another poster commented on the difference between training and instrument time. I could see the FAA saying that pre-private hood time does not count toward the 15 hours of training with a II, but the training should definately be consdiered as valuable hood time to apply towards the 40. The FAA allows me to count time with a safety pilot, why not count time I have spent under the hood with an instructor (pre-private).

Any comments? Also, AVBUG, is your understanding that pre-private X-C PIC can or cannot be counted towards the 50 hour requirment of the instrument rating?

Thanks

Mike

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks for correcting me, guys. Darned CRS.....

Anyway, I found the regs CD finally. Yep, it says authorized instructor, which could only mean a CFII in this case.

I'm uncertain about this "private instrument" part myself. It's one thing for the FAA to say that the training you recieve during your private training doesn't count towards your instrument rating, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that the simulated instrument time that you accumulate as a private student can't count toward the total instrument time for the IR.

Of course, little surprises me with these guys.