Questions about college

[eif87]

Hey guys!

Ever since I was little, my Ultimate goal in life was to become an Airline Pilot. Now that I am a senior in High School, that dream is still there, and so I have decided to try and become one (I wanna fly 737's, etc.). I was looking at going to ERAU in Prescott, but on the forums and other places on the net, it sounds like it's a waste of $100,000+ just for an aeronautical science degree and 250 hours of flight time. I did visit the campus about a month ago, and I LOVED the 'aviation' atmosphere of it all, but it just seemed....cheap and shoddy? Like they just want your money and don't really care how you become an airline pilot when you graduate. I also wanted something to fall back on in case the industry takes a turn for the worse, so the A.S Degree won't really help me. Also, I don't really want to move that far from home quite yet, so I was thinking about doing this: Go to a local state university for four years, get a degree in Mechanical Engineering (and while doing this get my PPL) and then when I graduate, go to Pan Am's flight academy. In the end, this will STILL be cheaper than ERAU, and I'll have a seperate degree other than aviation to fall back on, and also have many more hours than if I had graduated from ERAU(unless my reasoning is wrong?). Would this help me in becoming an airline pilot? Is Pan-Am a respectable place to get your training, and will they help me achieve my dream? I know you guys can't make my decisions, but ANY suggestions/comments would really be appreciated. As of now, I'm leaning towards the latter of the two decisions: going to my state university, get a degree, go to pan-am, etc.

Thanks for your help and hopefully I'll see you in the skies in a couple of years!

Eif87

 

[EatSleepFly]

If I were you, I'd go to your local state school, get that mechanical engineering degree.....and become an mechanical engineer.

Of course, if you really must fly, then do the M.E. degree and do your flight training at a decent FBO in the summers while you're in college. Pan Am is probably more expensive than its worth...the certificates/ratings are the same no matter where you get them.

 

[Rhoid]

Just make sure you don't get on with a commuter and then "quit" shortly thereafter.

 

[mayday1]

while I don't have recent price info, keep in mind that your instrument, multi, comm, CFI tickets at Pan Am will run you around $50k - not to mention your living expenses. While ERAU may not be cheap, neither is Pan Am - and that goes for most of the big schools (FSI, ATP, DCA, etc.). There are horror stories out there of people spending between $80 and $100k at some of these places.

If I could do things over again, I'd get my ratings (through CFI) at a local FBO while I went to college. As Eatsleepfly said, it doesn't matter where you got the ratings.

In any case, you're right about getting the 4 year degree now, first. I'd make that the priority, and then work in the flying where you can.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Just make sure you don't get on with a commuter and then "quit" shortly thereafter.

Dear HemorRhoid,

I don't know why exactly it is that you feel the need to respond to every post I make, but its getting tiring. Yes, I got on at a regional, and yes I quit shortly after. Its really none of anyone's business, but I'm not trying to hide it or make excuses for it, so I don't know why you continually bring it up. You said yourself that my leaving didn't affect you in any way, so wtf. You also said that you know me from KLUK. You don't. Either you made that up, or you've got the wrong guy. I don't know anyone there, and I've only been there a couple of times in passing. Get a life, dude.

~ESF

 

[pilotyip]

Go fly airplanes

If you want to be a pilot go fly airplanes. Do an on-line search on the college degree you will gets tons of information

 

[redd]

Anyone know the cost of ERAU online? Is there any cheaper online degree that can still be accredited?

 

[Clyde]

Hey guys!

Ever since I was little, my Ultimate goal in life was to become an Airline Pilot. Now that I am a senior in High School, that dream is still there, and so I have decided to try and become one (I wanna fly 737's, etc.). I was looking at going to ERAU in Prescott, but on the forums and other places on the net, it sounds like it's a waste of $100,000+ just for an aeronautical science degree and 250 hours of flight time. I did visit the campus about a month ago, and I LOVED the 'aviation' atmosphere of it all, but it just seemed....cheap and shoddy? Like they just want your money and don't really care how you become an airline pilot when you graduate. I also wanted something to fall back on in case the industry takes a turn for the worse, so the A.S Degree won't really help me. Also, I don't really want to move that far from home quite yet, so I was thinking about doing this: Go to a local state university for four years, get a degree in Mechanical Engineering (and while doing this get my PPL) and then when I graduate, go to Pan Am's flight academy. In the end, this will STILL be cheaper than ERAU, and I'll have a seperate degree other than aviation to fall back on, and also have many more hours than if I had graduated from ERAU(unless my reasoning is wrong?). Would this help me in becoming an airline pilot? Is Pan-Am a respectable place to get your training, and will they help me achieve my dream? I know you guys can't make my decisions, but ANY suggestions/comments would really be appreciated. As of now, I'm leaning towards the latter of the two decisions: going to my state university, get a degree, go to pan-am, etc.

Thanks for your help and hopefully I'll see you in the skies in a couple of years!

Eif87

Eif87,

Rule number one with aviation: an aviation degree is NOT required to get on with an airline.

Rule number two with aviation: ERAU is a waste of money.

Rule number three with aviation: if you end up not flying, an aviation degree is pretty much useless.

Go to a local state college and get a degree in Mechanical Engineering. It will cost you less and you may find it to be more advantageous in the long run, especially when (yes, when) you need it to fall back on. Personally, if it were me, I would go for an Electrical Engineering degree. But, I digress.

Regarding ERAU: I went there back in 1990 and left before the semester was over. In all of the advertisements I read, they claimed to be the "Harvard of the aviation industry". I found it to be quite the contrary. Professors lacked a lot of knowledge other than "stories of the good 'ol days", and several knew the material but did a terrible job of teaching it. The aviation atmosphere disappears very quickly after you get that bill for tuition and room and board. I left before I could waste anymore money. My academic advisor told me the airlines would never hire me. I'm tempted to send him my W2 statement and a copy of my ATP with my DA-20 and 757/767 type ratings on it. I ended up going to another college and earning my degree for about $60K less than the crooks at ERAU wanted. And, one more thing. ERAU will tell you how great your resume will stand out in the stack at an airline. I can assure you, very positively, that it will look just like everybody elses resume and will hold no more than merit than the one sitting above or below it. It's who you know that will get you the job.

Finally, you are going to need a marketable skill other than flying. Everything you will need to know you will learn in flight school.

Think of all of the people who come to interviews with aviation degrees. They are a dime-a-dozen. When an interviewer asks you what degree you have and you respond with an Engineering degree, you are going to make an impression on that person. Why? Becuase you will stand out as being different in a positive way. They also know that colleges don't hand out Engineering degrees either. They know that if you can make it through that program, you will have very little trouble flying their airplanes.

 

[Goose Egg]

I'd skip ERAU. I did a 4 year aviation degree at a state school. When I graduated, I had around $18k of student loans, which I from what I understand from some of my co-workers is way under the average. But then again, I had some grants too, and I lived at home because the school was a 20 minute drive from my house. If you are looking at an aviation degree, the state school is definitely the way to go.

Mechanical Engineering is a good field to go into if you can tolerate it. But understand, it is extremely demanding (it ain't high school, that's for sure!), and you will most likely not be able to do any flying during the school year (or anything other than school work, for that matter) unless you are exceptionally bright. If you want to fly, then fly. Being an egghead engineer ain't the only way to make a lving. I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with pilot_yip.

One point that yip and I will always differ on is the importance of a college degree. I personally feel that it is a wise idea to obtain one, if only to provide some sort of backup if (read when) you encounter rough times in the aviation world. And don't misunderstand me here--an aviation degree is fine. But to suppose that one could make it on a high school education if flying fell through is utterly asinine, and the advice of high-school education only proponents should be eschewed (read avoided like the plague) for that same reason. To think that a secondary education and a few ratings are adequate preparation for the world is a completely hazardous notion. But I digress.

There are many benefits to a college eduaction, and that is to say nothing of increased marketability within the aviation industry as well as the direct and indirect benefits that are inextricably connected to advanced education.

Now, with that said, sometimes I wish I had done something other than an aviation degree (but not engineering) even though I enjoyed it immensely. And the reason for that is that I feel like I missed the chance to develop some of my other talents--I was actually a pretty good artist back in H.S. Flying could have been a cool minor though. So, choose wisely, and find a degree that you will enjoy; one that will enrich your mind instead of bleed it dry.

-Goose

 

[Rhoid]

Clyde, I wholeheartedly agree with you. You'd have to be a total moron to waste that much money on Riddle. On an unrelated note, you'd also have to be a total moron to "quit" Eagle.

 

[Guitar Guy]

I graduated with a degree in aeronautical engineering and though I'd wanted to fly for a living, the jobs weren't there in the late '80's. So the aero degree worked for me and allowed to soak up a lot of experiences that ended up greatly benefitting me when I did switch to professional (or "full-time") flying. I think the discipline required to graduate with an engineering degree will be advantageous later if you do fly for a living. And like another respondant said, having an engineering degree does seem to help one stand out at times.

Flying is a great career but it is an industry with ups-and-downs. Having a fall-back position is important. In the end, I'd recommend against ERAU or a pricey "aviation academy" and instead get that engineering degree and fly on the side to get your ratings. If at all possible, once you get your engineering degree, try to get into an avaition-related field and employer. I was fortunate enough to work for Boeing and a major 121 airline and the contacts and experience were a tremendous asset for me.

 

[SiuDude]

Clyde, I wholeheartedly agree with you. You'd have to be a total moron to waste that much money on Riddle. On an unrelated note, you'd also have to be a total moron to "quit" Eagle.

Looks like somone's got their very own stalker!

 

[mayday1]

just another perspective.. everyone always mentions getting a degree in something other than aviation -- with the reasoning that you'll have something to "fall back on" if flying doesn't work out... that implies the aviation degree will not be valuable, worthy, or be competitive in other industries. In the corporate world we hire people from all sorts of backgrounds - e.g. people with music, english, history, philosophy, etc. degrees. We don't just look for those with a "business degree." Someone coming into a large corporation with a diverse background (possibly an aviation degree) would also leave a different impression.

My point -- don't think your engineering degree will be all that valuable to an engineering firm if you've been out pursuing an aviation career for a couple of years -- that engineering education will be stale. I keep hearing from others that you should have a degree outside of aviation to fall back on... that's fine, but an aviation degree will not be of any detriment to you. Without any experience in your field of study (whether it be aviation, engineering, business, etc.), your degree will be just that, a bachelors degree - very valuable, but not representative of your expertise in any particular area.

Unless you're considering medical school or something that requires an undergraduate curriculum, get a degree in something that interests you, whether it be aviation, engineering or otherwise.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Looks like somone's got their very own stalker!

Yeah, no kidding...dude's got issues. Maybe I boinked his sister or something...

 

[Vik]

Where are you located? Willing to travel? What is your budget for getting your ratings and how do you plan to pay for them?

Answering these will help everyone give you better answers.

Hey guys!

Ever since I was little, my Ultimate goal in life was to become an Airline Pilot. Now that I am a senior in High School, that dream is still there, and so I have decided to try and become one (I wanna fly 737's, etc.). I was looking at going to ERAU in Prescott, but on the forums and other places on the net, it sounds like it's a waste of $100,000+ just for an aeronautical science degree and 250 hours of flight time. I did visit the campus about a month ago, and I LOVED the 'aviation' atmosphere of it all, but it just seemed....cheap and shoddy? Like they just want your money and don't really care how you become an airline pilot when you graduate. I also wanted something to fall back on in case the industry takes a turn for the worse, so the A.S Degree won't really help me. Also, I don't really want to move that far from home quite yet, so I was thinking about doing this: Go to a local state university for four years, get a degree in Mechanical Engineering (and while doing this get my PPL) and then when I graduate, go to Pan Am's flight academy. In the end, this will STILL be cheaper than ERAU, and I'll have a seperate degree other than aviation to fall back on, and also have many more hours than if I had graduated from ERAU(unless my reasoning is wrong?). Would this help me in becoming an airline pilot? Is Pan-Am a respectable place to get your training, and will they help me achieve my dream? I know you guys can't make my decisions, but ANY suggestions/comments would really be appreciated. As of now, I'm leaning towards the latter of the two decisions: going to my state university, get a degree, go to pan-am, etc.

Thanks for your help and hopefully I'll see you in the skies in a couple of years!

Eif87

 

[vossdr1]

Go get a degree in something you are interested in. A college degree is not supposed to land you a great job. There are plenty of people with degrees in very practical and boring (IMHO) fields who are out of work. Conversely, I know of plenty of people with degrees in areas like Art History and Music who make tall cash in fields that have nothing to do with their respective studies. College shows that you can finish something. It also teaches (or should teach) you how to think critically.

If you want to fly, find a reputable flight school that will hire those that they train. Set aside the money so you don't have to stop and start. Get your Commercial certs and CFI and start instructing. Don't limit yourself to an airline job. There is so much more in aviation. Learn more about different flying jobs and then pick one that suits you.

Godspeed eif87.

 

[bobbysamd]

Riddle and degrees

Ever since I was little, my Ultimate goal in life was to become an Airline Pilot. Now that I am a senior in High School, that dream is still there, and so I have decided to try and become one (I wanna fly 737's, etc.). I was looking at going to ERAU in Prescott, but on the forums and other places on the net, it sounds like it's a waste of $100,000+ just for an aeronautical science degree and 250 hours of flight time. I did visit the campus about a month ago, and I LOVED the 'aviation' atmosphere of it all, but it just seemed....cheap and shoddy?

ERAU-Prescott hired me for my first full-time aviation job in 1988. It provides a great learning environment for students and instructors. Cheap and shoddy does not apply to Riddle aircraft maintenance. No, Riddle is not cheap - but it provides a great aviation education. The flight training is good quality - better than many places . . . .

I was thinking about doing this: Go to a local state university for four years, get a degree in Mechanical Engineering (and while doing this get my PPL) and then when I graduate, go to Pan Am's flight academy. In the end, this will STILL be cheaper than ERAU, and I'll have a seperate degree other than aviation to fall back on, and also have many more hours than if I had graduated from ERAU(unless my reasoning is wrong?). Would this help me in becoming an airline pilot?

People make a big deal about earning a non-aviation degree as a form of backup plan. What they fail to consider is a non-aviation degree will not mean much unless work experience in the field in question is also offered. Apart from bettering yourself with education, a college degree, Yip, qualifies a person for every piloting job. It also qualifies a person for every other job that advertises "college degree required or preferred." Thus, the only thing that matters is earning a four-year degree.

Having said these things, I like an aviation degree because of the education provided to pilots. After all, isn't being a pilot what you want to be?

Is Pan-Am a respectable place to get your training, and will they help me achieve my dream? I know you guys can't make my decisions, but ANY suggestions/comments would really be appreciated.

Pan Am has played to very mixed reviews. Try running a keyword search on the board of Pan Am.

Finally, I'd just suggest you set your goal only slightly lower than where you have set it. Review of current events shows the legacy carriers are in trouble. Delta is cutting salaries something like thirty-two percent. NPR reported this morning that Delta plans to revamp itself into something resembling a LCC. U made few friends ten days ago when it lost luggage. The big regional Comair made few friends over Christmas when it canceled its entire schedule. Large numbers of majors pilots are still on furlough. You may be better advised to set a goal of getting a good corporate or freight job. If you're hell-bent on airline flying, your best goal might be a seat at a good regional. Finally, military flying is an excellent and extremely honorable goal.

Good luck with whatever direction you take.

 

[flyer172r]

Nothing wrong with getting an aviation degree and finding a job outside aviation, I know of several who have done it and are very successful. I would encourage you to avoid ERAU simply because there's not much there besides aviation. I would recommend you look at schools that have a lot of other things going on, sports, clubs, etc. I'm a college senior right now and I love having other things to involve myself in besides aviation, it gives me more of a life.

Not much more boring than being around people who only talk about airplanes.

 

[Goose Egg]

You may be better advised to set a goal of getting a good corporate or freight job. If you're hell-bent on airline flying, your best goal might be a seat at a good regional. Finally, military flying is an excellent and extremely honorable goal.

Good point. Recently, I sat down and had a little conversation with myself (not out loud, that would have just been silly.) I reckoned that the reasons that I started flying and the reasons that I stuck with flying are completely different. For example, I am certainly getting a charge out of flight instructing, but a charge that I did not expect. I thought it would be the coolest thing ever to be around airplanes everyday, and to finally get paid to go flying, and to finally have my "office" located at an airport. All that stuff is good, but what I find the most fulfilling is to see my students finally "get it." And that's what keeps me coming back. But the point is that I didn't anticipate getting such a rush out of it.

Another example: When I first started my instrument training, I loved it because I thought talking to ATC made me feel like an airline pilot. But now I love instrument flying for the sheer challenge of doing it; instrument flying is great of its own accord and talking to ATC is just part of that. When I first started training, I had no interest in gliders, taildraggers, or aerobatics. Now I can't leave that stuff alone! When I first started training, I loved flying because I was doing something that would bring me closer to my airline goal. Now I love flying because it is my craft--I love the act of flying, and I love helping others to see it as a craft, not just a means to an end.

Anyway, I hope this is a sign that I am maturing as an aviator. And who knows, my motives for continuing to fly may change yet again. I have no reason to suspect that the same phenomena will not occur in my future flying. In fact, I hope I can ferret out a good corporate job in the future, because I think that I'd like the hands-on nature of it (seriously I have no qualms with pulling my own airplane out of a hangar--it helps me feel like I'm actually working for a change), and hopefully I could be around the family a bit more. All those dreams of strutting around the terminal and making rediculous amounts of money don't really seem to matter much any more. I never dreamed of a corporate job when I was younger, but I think that was simply because I was lead to believe that the only option for an aviation career was with a major airline. Now older and wiser, I see that is not the case.

-Goose

 

[smellthejeta]

I agree with the others in that it is not so much what you do as much as it is that you do it. The engineering fields are the ones that really require a specific degree, and it will be hard to sell yourself if your skills aren't current. Further, I have this to add: If you are going to pursue a four year degree while working on your ratings, DO NOT sacrifice your GPA for the sake of your flight time. I have a BS in Computer Science, and I have had so many doors slammed in my face because I have less than a 3.0 GPA. Many government jobs or government contracting jobs are closed to me because of that, as well as a lot of graduate school degrees. My employer has a tuition reimbursement program that covers a vast majority of ERAU's extended campus tuition. I'd perfer their MBA program, but they won't let me in... so I'm doing another masters program through them solely with the intention of having a graduate degree with a high GPA (and keeping my student loans deferred while I'm waiting for the FAA to call). This will create many opporutnities inside and out of aviation if my medical tanks (a realistic possibility for me).

If I knew now what I knew then, I probably would have gone to Purdue, because they have every program that I ever thought I wanted to do, which would allow me to double major in an engineering discipline and my aviation related stuff as well.

Despite pilotyip's insistsance that if you want to fly, then fly and skip school, I feel you will be severely limiting yourself. I sincerely believe that one of the reasons the pilot market is turning to he!! in a handbasket is because of the labor structure. In the airline world, seniority is everything. Management can take advantage of you (shove wage cuts down your throat and force you to take them) because they know it's not worth it for you to leave your current position for a lower seniority number somewhere else. You end up at the mercy of your MEC and your management and can't do anything about it. You may say you really really want to fly now (and you may) but what happens if you figure out that you can't stand it anymore? I had two roommates who are under thirty; combined, I believe they've been furloughed seven times. Prior to the last furlough, one guy told me that if he was furloughed again, he was done with airline flying. A decent Bachelor's degree might allow you to at least get into graduate school or some other things to refresh your stale skills. If you don't have one, you have severly limited options.