question

[dugan jones]

here's a question i have. if someone owns say a gulfstream can they fly it single pilot? are there any rules for flying your own plane privately? this would be strictly part 91 flying, nothing for hire at all. thanks

 

[Longhorn]

No he/she cant. Not because of part 91 or being privately owned, but because of aircraft certification. A gulfstream is not certified for single pilot operation. The only jet that I know of that is, other than some of the "very light jets" that are starting to appear, is a few of the citations.

 

[gutshotdraw]

here's a question i have. if someone owns say a gulfstream can they fly it single pilot? are there any rules for flying your own plane privately? this would be strictly part 91 flying, nothing for hire at all. thanks

This was a serious question from someone who claims to hold an ATP and have flown the 727? Do you ever read ANYTHING about your industry?

You can tow your shiny silver Airstream travel trailer behind your F-150 single pilot any time you want. Gulfstream jets take two pilots. Preferably ones with more knowledge of this business than you. Sheesh

 

[dugan jones]

hey dip******************** take it easy, it was a simple question. i go to work and fly planes when i'm not at work i do other stuff......i don't read the damn aim and know all the rules of flying outside of airlines. sorry i'm not as knowlegable as you dude

 

[MD11Drvr]

Hey DJ relax. I have to agree it seems hard to imagine an ATP rated pilot not knowing something like this about his chosen professsion. I am not saying you have to know the AIM to do this profession but it seems likely you would have picked up the knowledge along the way if for no other reason than to keep from getting violated. I am guessing you have lived a charmed life if in fact someone has given you an ATP and a chance to fly the 727 and you did not understand the requirements of flying turbo jets or how they are certified. Congrats on skipping a few steps.

 

[cargoflyr69]

OK, I'm kinda slow on the multi-crew rules too.

So, lets say that it is a private pt91 gulfstream and the owner is typed in the plane. Can he hire a "Warm Body" to sit shotgun as long as they have a multi-private rating? Does the body have to have any formal gulfstream training?

Remember I'm asking legal, not necessarily safe......

 

[gutshotdraw]

Well dugan,

I've never flown in the military but I can tell the difference between an F-14, an F-15, and an F-18 even though they look a lot alike. I've never flown for a major airline but I can tell you what equipment every major in this country operates. I haven't flown a piston single since 1991 but I can tell you I'd rather buy a Columbia 400 than a Cirrus and why. I haven't flown a leg under anything but IFR since 1995 but I can still read a sectional.

It's called professionalism. Keeping up on areas of aviation OTHER THAN YOUR OWN actually can impact how you do your job. Example: "Krazy Klown Airways 121, follow the Gulfstream ahead and to your left, taxi to Runway 19 Right." It would be kind of nice if you could tell the difference between me in my G-550 and my Flexjet colleague in the Challenger that I was told to follow so you don't cut me off like the knucklehead in the A-320 last week in Las Vegas.

I don't sit around thumbing through a dog-eared copy of the AIM but I do read different trade rags (AIN, B/CA, ALPA, AOPA) to keep up and hopefully learn something that might save my job, my license, or my life someday. You should try it sometime.

As for cargoflyer's question, to fly right seat in a Gulfstream or any other two-pilot turbojet, the SIC must hold a private, multi-engine instrument rating and have "familiarity" with normal and abnormal procedures and three takeoffs and landings in the aircraft. If he's getting paid, he'd better have a commercial license. If he wants to leave the U.S. he'd better have an "SIC Type Rating." If he wants the owner to be insured (and stay alive), he'd better go back to FlightSafety and get a full type rating. Like you said, legal is one thing. Safe is another.

 

[Zipperhead]

Your'e smart....Do you really have an ATP and have you really flown a 727? Good grief, It's called a FAR/AIM, pick one up sometime...

Must have gotten your ATP at Joe's flying school/ bait house.

Hey, if I buy a 747 and fly it for my own personal pleasure, can I fly it single pilot????

 

[Quiet Flight]

Why is this on the "Majors" board?

 

[50Pesos]

The real answer is yes that is legally possible to the feds, BUT it will never be allowed in general due to insurance qualifications. I know there are a couple exections where the owner has enough currency to do that but extremely rare.

 

[Nindiri]

......i don't read the damn aim and know all the rules of flying outside of airlines.

I have to agree here. I spend enough of my time reading aviation manuals at work. The last thing I'm going to do is spend my personal hours studying manuals and regs that don't even apply to me or affect me in any way.

 

[The_Russian]

I've never flown in the military but I can tell the difference between an F-14, an F-15, and an F-18 even though they look a lot alike. I've never flown for a major airline but I can tell you what equipment every major in this country operates. I haven't flown a piston single since 1991 but I can tell you I'd rather buy a Columbia 400 than a Cirrus and why. I haven't flown a leg under anything but IFR since 1995 but I can still read a sectional.

It's called professionalism. Keeping up on areas of aviation OTHER THAN YOUR OWN actually can impact how you do your job. Example: "Krazy Klown Airways 121, follow the Gulfstream ahead and to your left, taxi to Runway 19 Right." It would be kind of nice if you could tell the difference between me in my G-550 and my Flexjet colleague in the Challenger that I was told to follow so you don't cut me off like the knucklehead in the A-320 last week in Las Vegas.

I don't sit around thumbing through a dog-eared copy of the AIM but I do read different trade rags (AIN, B/CA, ALPA, AOPA) to keep up and hopefully learn something that might save my job, my license, or my life someday. You should try it sometime.

As for cargoflyer's question, to fly right seat in a Gulfstream or any other two-pilot turbojet, the SIC must hold a private, multi-engine instrument rating and have "familiarity" with normal and abnormal procedures and three takeoffs and landings in the aircraft. If he's getting paid, he'd better have a commercial license. If he wants to leave the U.S. he'd better have an "SIC Type Rating." If he wants the owner to be insured (and stay alive), he'd better go back to FlightSafety and get a full type rating. Like you said, legal is one thing. Safe is another.

Great post! This applies to everyone.

 

[CA1900]

FAR 61 and 91 affect all of us, no matter whether you're flying airline, fractional, corporate, or GA. You need to know all the rules that apply to you, not just the subpart you happen to be flying under.

For example, the speed limit of 250 knots below 10,000 isn't in Part 121 or 135, but it still very much applies to pilots flying under those subparts.


To the OP: Yes, you need an SIC -- that's spelled in the aircraft's flight manual, and is part of the certification of the aircraft. The only jets I know of that can be flown single-pilot are a few models of small Cessna Citations. All others require two pilots.

As to the training the SIC is required to have, read FAR 61.55. It spells out exactly what's required, and it's much more than just a warm body with a pilot's license.

Hope that helps.

 

[vtwo]

Lighten up Francis !!!!!

 

[vtwo]

Not every one eats and breaths this stuff.

I new a guy that only had a Private multiengine sea plane rating.
Learned to fly in a friends twin on floats.
no single engine land or any other ratings.

I worked a flight b727 with atp rated captain. turbo jet rated flight engineer and a student pilot with no ratings in the fo seat. perfectly legal. Not the safest thing but legal.

so not everyone knows everything. give the a chance he asked the question didn't he?

 

[ultrarunner]

OK, I'm kinda slow on the multi-crew rules too.

So, lets say that it is a private pt91 gulfstream and the owner is typed in the plane. Can he hire a "Warm Body" to sit shotgun as long as they have a multi-private rating? Does the body have to have any formal gulfstream training?

Remember I'm asking legal, not necessarily safe......

61.55 will answer your question.

 

[CA1900]

Not every one eats and breaths this stuff.

No, but generally someone who's gone as far as getting an ATP is doing this for a living. And if that's the case, he does need to know the regs.

I worked a flight b727 with atp rated captain. turbo jet rated flight engineer and a student pilot with no ratings in the fo seat. perfectly legal. Not the safest thing but legal.

Unless it was a training flight with no pax or cargo, how is it legal under 61.55?

 

[Zipperhead]

Not every one eats and breaths this stuff.

I new a guy that only had a Private multiengine sea plane rating.
Learned to fly in a friends twin on floats.
no single engine land or any other ratings.

I worked a flight b727 with atp rated captain. turbo jet rated flight engineer and a student pilot with no ratings in the fo seat. perfectly legal. Not the safest thing but legal.

so not everyone knows everything. give the a chance he asked the question didn't he?

A 727 fo student pilot huh? I doubt it... He/She at minimum, had training in the aircraft.

 

[The_Russian]

Not every one eats and breaths this stuff.

No, but a professional pilot should. How would you feel if your lawyer didn't keep up with changes in the law?

I new a guy that only had a Private multiengine sea plane rating.
Learned to fly in a friends twin on floats.
no single engine land or any other ratings.

OK.

I worked a flight b727 with atp rated captain. turbo jet rated flight engineer and a student pilot with no ratings in the fo seat. perfectly legal. Not the safest thing but legal.

Not the safest thing, nor is it legal whatsoever.

 

[vtwo]

A 727 fo student pilot huh? I doubt it... He/She at minimum, had training in the aircraft.

See I knew someone would bite the bait.
It was private owned airplane registered overseas. fars. don't apply.
the guy had never been in an airplane until he bought a 727. he had over a hundred hours of touch n go's the last I heard

see not every one knows everything about aviation. ATP or not. I could care less what the difference between a g4 or a g5 or a g550 or what ever you fly. I probably couldn't tell them apart. don't really care to. I could how ever tell the difference between an IL76 and an AN124.
does that make me cool?

 

[gutshotdraw]

No, but when you're told to follow the Antonov on final you probably won't cut him off by following the Ilyushin instead.

 

[The_Russian]

See I knew someone would bite the bait.
It was private owned airplane registered overseas. fars. don't apply.

No, but the applicable country and/or ICAO's rules apply.