Question Regarding NJA sell-off trips

[G4dude]

Really? EVER? REALLY? Wow you are such a fool.

You have just shown that your blind hatred has blocked any logic you may have.

Now, if you want to put some money where your mouth is about NetJets ever hiring again, let me know. Gonna guess you don't have the balls.

Just curious, who or what does gret hate?

 

[agrrlpilot]

The sell-offs eventually help us out because of the language in the contract. The pilots I have a problem with are the ones who scramble to pick up all the extended days they can find. There is no limiting language for that, as I understand, like the language for sell-offs. Those extended-day guys are the ones who don't help the cause.

 

[glasspilot]

Negative. If an owner is flying on his NJA account during an NJA strike, the crew operating the aircraft would be flying struck work in my opinion.

And that would be determined how?

If an owner has multiple accounts at different companies and uses his Flexjet / Shares/ Flops account, that flight would not be struck work as NJA is not receiving any revenue from the flight.

So the passengers wealth determines if the pilot is a scab? Those who can afford multiple cards get non-scab pilots?

 

[imacdog]

If that's how you want to view it then yes. In the event of a strike (of course all hypothetical etc as there is no chance of one right now), the flying that is charged against an owner's NJA account would be considered struck work. If an NJA owner/cardholder travels via means other than their NJA account, then that is not struck work (they are free to fly with whomever they wish).

 

[glasspilot]

So me and my buddy are owners at NetJets. My buddy is really rich and has shares at NetJets and also CitationAir. NetJets goes on strike and we both want to fly at the same time from PWK.

NetJets calls me a charter from Bobs BigWing Charter Co. Those pilots are scabs. My buddy calls CitationAir and they have to charter because for some reason they are REALLY busy now...go figure. Anyway, CitationAir is forced to charter and wouldn't you know, they use Bobs BigWing Charter Co. too.

So two NetJet owners get a ride from the same company yet one of them is struck work? The unfortunate "scab pilots" are scabs because Jannet in the home office happened to assign them to my flight instead of my buddies? Really? That's how it works?

How are those two guys supposed to know they are flying your struck work?

 

[say again]

Well said glasspilot!! Amazed at the ignorance on this board sometimes.

 

[ultrarunner]

At the end of the day, the union defines 'struck work'. But in the Frac environment, in this 'hypothetical exercise', there would be very little, to no consequences.

In the airline days, if you scabbed and flew work that was being struck, you found your name on the scab-list. This resulted, and to a lesser extent, still results in a 121 pilot's ability to JS.

The airline union's definition of struck work also prevented other airlines from adding flights to cover segments of the other airlines.

Very little to any of this would ever come into play in the event a strike would occur at the Frac level. Stuck work can be defined with such a broad brush.

If I get a call to take John Doe from A to B, and I choose to do that trip, I have absolutely NO obligation whatsoever to inquire about details beyond the requirements that our company has with respect to flying an "off-the-street-charter". None. Nor is there any expectation.

HNW individuals run very little risk in being stranded. Ask NJAOwner. He'll tell ya. He will dust off his share at another outfit, or have his assistant call one of his 'approved charter companies'. Done, he's in the air. And 'ain't loosing any sleep.

This is all an academic conversation anyway. Consolidation isn't done, right-sizing isn't done, furloughs are not done, and none of that has the first thing to do with a strike!

 

[imacdog]

Well said glasspilot!! Amazed at the ignorance on this board sometimes.

I'm not sure why you feel this is "ignorance". If a carrier's pilots are on strike, then passengers being flown around by that carrier (whether on the same airframe or through a contracted flight) are being flown on struck work.

 

[gret]

I'm not sure why you feel this is "ignorance". If a carrier's pilots are on strike, then passengers being flown around by that carrier (whether on the same airframe or through a contracted flight) are being flown on struck work.

I'm sick...this it outright garbage and wishful thinking on your part. Just who do you think is going to support you?

Just stop this nonsense...please?

 

[imacdog]

No wishful thinking, etc. There's no threat of a strike by any carrier now and I don't hold malice toward anyone. Just an emotionless academic discussion and while we may have to agree to disagree, I'm certainly not licking my chops hoping to label anyone a scab. This topic was discussed over and over back in 2005 as well (though there was certainly more emotion back then for obvious reasons).

 

[jonjuan]

Negative. If an owner is flying on his NJA account during an NJA strike, the crew operating the aircraft would be flying struck work in my opinion. If an owner has multiple accounts at different companies and uses his Flexjet / Shares/ Flops account, that flight would not be struck work as NJA is not receiving any revenue from the flight.

So, how do you determine who ultimately receives the revenue? You strike. What visibility do you have over who is flying on what charter company and who ultimately receives the revenue? How will you know if the hours are charged against said owners nja account? Charter companies ain't gonna tell you who's flying on their planes. Nja ain't gonna tell you how an owner paid for it. All you have visibility over is nja aircraft.

 

[gunfyter]

jj

There may be no way to practically determine who is flying the struck work.... But just because we can't find out who it is ... doesn't mean its not scabbing.

Or is it only scabbing if you get caught. ?

No. ... even if you don't get caught you still go to hell when you die.... :angryfire

 

[imacdog]

Here is an example from the recent Spirit strike where Spirit passengers were flown by a subcontracted flight (using another company's crew and airplane), and that was considered flying struck work.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=133659&highlight=falcon+air+scab

 

[TimsKeeper]

...

Negative. If an owner is flying on his NJA account during an NJA strike, the crew operating the aircraft would be flying struck work in my opinion. If an owner has multiple accounts at different companies and uses his Flexjet / Shares/ Flops account, that flight would not be struck work as NJA is not receiving any revenue from the flight.

My opinion matters not however. We are not striking. We are not in Section Six negotiations, and there is no threat of a strike. Should that ever come to pass, NJASAP will define struck work for the particular case, just as every other striking pilot group has done.

NJASAP doesn't define struck work for me.

Your thought process is flawed and selfish.

 

[X-rated]

NJASAP doesn't define struck work for me.

Your thought process is flawed and selfish.

C'mon, why aren't you willing to get fired, so NJA pilots can get a 5th crew meal each day? Dude, you're a scab, and I'm keeping a list. When are you going to learn? It's all about what's best for NJA, and if you and your family have to live in your car and eat government cheese, that seems like a small price to pay.

 

[imacdog]

The decision is one also faced by non-union and unionized supplemental 121 pilots during periods of airline strikes.

 

[glasspilot]

When a 121 carrier, say United, strikes the other union carriers refuse to fly "struck work". That means the pilots at the other carriers (US Air, Delta, American, ect) won't let their management add the city pairs that United held. Now if they were already flying a city pair and traffic for that city pair goes way up due to the strike then that's the way it goes.

The term "Scab" refers to those who come on property and fly the striking carriers airplanes. In this example if you agreed to go fly a United Boeing 757 while the United pilots were on strike you would be a scab whether you are a United pilot or not.

If you are a Delta pilot and you continue to fly from Chicago to Atlanta, just like you did before the strike, then you are NOT a scab. United pilots do not blame you for continuing to fly your routes, even though your loads just went through the roof as a result of the strike. In fact, Delta can even add lift to the city pair to accommodate the heavier loads. That is considered good to the striking United pilots. They WANT their management to see all those dollars flying out the door to the competitor.

Fractional do not fly city pairs, so that comparison doesn't really work. But we do fly airplanes. If somebody comes in and flies your company aircraft during a strike then they are by all means a scab. If another company comes in and flies those passengers then they are NOT scabs. If you were a NetJets pilot and NetJets pilots went on strike then you would WANT NetJets to charter. That cost is exactly what is going to bring NetJets management to the table quicker. As a striking NetJet pilot you should not look at some charter company pilots as scabs. Those charter pilots are doing way more than you with your picket sign in HPN or CMA to bring closure to the strike.

Nobody at any union company expects anyone at any other company to lose their job over the strike. They just expect others to honor the strike by not flying the aircraft controlled by the company that is being struck.

 

[gret]

When a 121 carrier, say United, strikes the other union carriers refuse to fly "struck work". That means the pilots at the other carriers (US Air, Delta, American, ect) won't let their management add the city pairs that United held. Now if they were already flying a city pair and traffic for that city pair goes way up due to the strike then that's the way it goes.

The term "Scab" refers to those who come on property and fly the striking carriers airplanes. In this example if you agreed to go fly a United Boeing 757 while the United pilots were on strike you would be a scab whether you are a United pilot or not.

If you are a Delta pilot and you continue to fly from Chicago to Atlanta, just like you did before the strike, then you are NOT a scab. United pilots do not blame you for continuing to fly your routes, even though your loads just went through the roof as a result of the strike. In fact, Delta can even add lift to the city pair to accommodate the heavier loads. That is considered good to the striking United pilots. They WANT their management to see all those dollars flying out the door to the competitor.

Fractional do not fly city pairs, so that comparison doesn't really work. But we do fly airplanes. If somebody comes in and flies your company aircraft during a strike then they are by all means a scab. If another company comes in and flies those passengers then they are NOT scabs. If you were a NetJets pilot and NetJets pilots went on strike then you would WANT NetJets to charter. That cost is exactly what is going to bring NetJets management to the table quicker. As a striking NetJet pilot you should not look at some charter company pilots as scabs. Those charter pilots are doing way more than you with your picket sign in HPN or CMA to bring closure to the strike.

Nobody at any union company expects anyone at any other company to lose their job over the strike. They just expect others to honor the strike by not flying the aircraft controlled by the company that is being struck.

Exactly...articulated perfectly!

There is no way that anyone could argue with this....

 

[glasspilot]

There is no way that anyone could argue with this....

Oh young Jedi. This is FlightInfo. I promise there will be those that argue with this. Just wait and read on. Many dispute forth comith...I'm sure.

 

[gret]

I know. I was going to mention that, but I thought I would give them the benefit of the doubt.