question for you guys in the big time

[WAZUP]

Do you guys really know what this whole -go jet- situation is about or even care? I will never get a straight answer on the regional threads. Thanks.

 

[temcgrew]

I know all about how TRANS STATES started another airline to get around the AA scope clause, and in the process used it to get around the ALPA pilots contract and hire pilots off the street instead of using their own pilots. The pilots that went to G0JET knew what was going on and went to work for them anyway. Anyone that goes to work for a company that would not PROMOTE their own employees, but hire off the street then furlough the TSA pilots afterward is as bad as a scab and should have their names on a list, much like the one you would find at www.g0jetpilots.com .(change the zero to an "o")

But i'm sure all of the guys on this board would know all about it.

If you are looking to justify taking a job there, why don't you just go, then come back and tell us all how good it is?

 

[theo]

What I heard is that Go Jet was started by a holding company, not Trans States Airlines. Much like many other Regionals are owned by a holding company. I also heard that the flying was offered to Trans States pilots and was rejected by them, they felt the price was too high. I also heard that the NMB ruled on this challenge brought by ALPA and the ALPA challenge was rejected. Sounds like some are not happy they rejected the flying and want to find someone other than themselves to blame.

 

[ricj41]

GO back to flying your 70 seater theo

 

[instructordude]

You guys loose me in all your jargon.

 

[Blucher]

You guys loose me in all your jargon.

I've heard you're a bit "loose," but I didn't think that was how it happened.

-Blucher

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Do you guys really know what this whole -go jet- situation is about or even care? I will never get a straight answer on the regional threads. Thanks.

I know about them, but only because of what has been posted here. I would say that 80% of the major pilots out there have no idea who they are. The other 20% that do know don't care much, every pilot group has their own problems right now, G O Jets is the last thing on their mind.

After all, it is really not that different from what the regionals did to the major airlines, My job at a major was outsourced to the lowest bidder, the routes are still there, except that some young guy is flying it in an RJ for a third of the money. Ironically, by the same guys that are raising such a stink about the G O Jets thing.

Not the pilots fault, mgmt. does what they please. There will always be somebody that will fly it for next to nothing. Nothing going on that hasn't been going on for quite a few years, just this time it is the RJ guys losing out to other RJ guys.

I am sure I will need my asbestos undies now, but that is how the guys at the majors see it..and the used to be major guys.

 

[starshipdrvr]

Hey Kerosene,
I don't know about you, but most of the guys I fly with know about g0 jets. It can be debated whether or not its a career killer but if I were starting out in aviation I would stay far far away.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Hey Kerosene,
I don't know about you, but most of the guys I fly with know about g0 jets. It can be debated whether or not its a career killer but if I were starting out in aviation I would stay far far away.

I am not saying that I like what is happening, just that many (most from my point of view) have much bigger things to worry about right now.

As far as a career killer, I doubt it, after all ALPA has accepted large amounts of scabs back in before (A certian major airline that we all know) And removed them from any lists.

When you get down to it, the pilots have done nothing but accept a job. They did not cross picket lines, they did not fly struck work. TSA turned down the offer presented to them, mgmt. found somebody to fly it. Just like how TSA got all that jet flying in the first place, the majors refused to fly it so cheap. The non union thing tosses a small wrench in there, but as stated above, money (dues) makes things like that go away. If they are not on the "master list" it will be forgotten soon enough, even some that are on the list have been written a free pass.

In a perfect world this would not happen but.......the best we can do is educate the new pilots. However this is simply another in a long line of problems that the RJ has created. In 1989 if you had told me that a whole generation of pilots would fly 50 to 70 seat jets for what the RJ pays I would have said you are nuts....yet here we are.

 

[32LT10]

What is the difference between a GO JET pilot and a mesa or skywest pilot? They are all working for the lowest bidder. ALPA has said the TSA pilots had the opportunity to do the GO Jet flying, played hardball and lost.

 

[flatspin7]

Hey Kerosene,
I don't know about you, but most of the guys I fly with know about g0 jets. It can be debated whether or not its a career killer but if I were starting out in aviation I would stay far far away.

GeauxJet is not a career killer... There is a guy in my class at Continental who worked for them. And really no one at the major really care... or know who GJet is!

I kinda think it was a questionable career move, but there is more to the situation to meet the eye. TSA pilots were offered the flying for a pay freeze, but this is the same MEC that took a 2 year extension on thier POS contract in order to get the FIRED MEC chairman his job back (He landed an ERJ with the parking brake on).

 

[nimtz]

We really need to scope those barbie jets next contract round!

 

[BenderGonzales]

I agree with Kerosene Snorter. You would be hard pressed to find a legacy airline crewmember who could name all of the regional codeshares (bonus points for identifying aircraft type) much less one who has an opinion on this one.

He's right about 1 thing. In the late 90s I was flying a DC9 to a bunch of small to midsize cities on the east coast. Ithaca, Elmira, Binghamton, Burlington, Dayton, Richmond, Norfolk.... you name it.

Those routes are still there. They have been outsourced to the lowest bidder and are now flown by pilots for a fraction of what I was paid. (A fraction of a fraction if you look solely at F/O pay).

They crossed no picket line. They made no conscious decision to take away my job. Their management provided an airplane, they went to work and flew it. Period.

To me, they are "go jets". I don't think these kids will have any problems moving on in the industry as a result of having flown for that company. Their problem moving on will be as a direct result of there being nowhere to go! The bigger the RJ, the fewer major-airline jobs will be available in the future. It's the circle of life.

 

[Jetjockey]

Bender, you might be wrong on that one. Many of us spent years (almost a decade) in the regional ranks, and still keep up with the happenings in the industry. I know I can. I do agree many are oblivious to who and what goes on the reginal world, but not all.

 

[TWA Dude]

What is the difference between a GO JET pilot and a mesa or skywest pilot? They are all working for the lowest bidder. ALPA has said the TSA pilots had the opportunity to do the GO Jet flying, played hardball and lost.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Sure, TSA pilots could've taken paycuts and lost what little their contract has to offer to fly for the alter ego, but then people like you would post what whores they are. There's a world of difference between G0Jets and the legitimate carriers. Those (legitimate) pilots can't be blamed for the fact that their commuter/regional/small jet airlines are flying former mainline routes because those routes were given to them by Mainline Management! It's wrong to blame those pilots and it's senseless to be angry with them. G0Jets is different, just like Freedom before them, because they're a blatant management ploy to divide and conquer. In these cases pilots could've made a difference but chose not to. I won't forget them.

 

[redbook]

What is the difference between a GO JET pilot and a mesa or skywest pilot? They are all working for the lowest bidder. ALPA has said the TSA pilots had the opportunity to do the GO Jet flying, played hardball and lost.

32LT10, coming from you, that is just perfect.

G0jet was a whipsaw alter ego airline designed to subvert the contract of TSA. If you cannot differentiate between g0jet and any other airline, you missed out somewhere in your basic education. But you are too high and mighty (still) to know what is going on in the rest of the industry. Hubris.

You are such a pile of hypocritical sh!t.

 

[temcgrew]

Take your chances and go work there, you never know how lucky you will get. The fact of the matter is that now TRANS STATES HOLDINGS is furloughing the TRANS STATES AIRLINE pilots, displacing captains to F/O's with paycuts and still trying to hire for G0JET.

If you want to work for a company that would do this to their own employees, then GO AHEAD and do it. Just stop shoving it in our faces.
Just know that its a small world and you never know who you will run into!

Just wait until the company does something like this to you!
With the history of this company and what is going on internally, I do not uderstand why anyone would want to work for TSH in the first place.

I've been with TSA for about 3 years now and I will be taking a paycut in the next few months when I get displaced. Other guys are being furloughed because the company (TSH, and yes g0jet and tsa are the same company)
didn't have the foresight to see this happening? There would have been plenty of pilots to staff g0jet with all of the displacements and furloughs.

 

[redbook]

What is the difference between a GO JET pilot and a mesa or skywest pilot? They are all working for the lowest bidder. ALPA has said the TSA pilots had the opportunity to do the GO Jet flying, played hardball and lost.

let me guess what you would have done. Taken alpa's advice, NOT played hardball, taken the "opportunity" (you are such an idiot) and thus worked for the LOWEST BIDDER.

How dumb is that argument you are making?

 

[Big Slick]

I have a question for some of the younger guys. Why are you pursuing a job as an airline pilot? What are you hoping to get out of it?

Are you going to be happy flying for Virgin America or Jetblue? Have you seen the pay rates for a Jetblue -190 FO? Why do you aspire to that job? Can you live in NYC on $37k per year?

Do you want to work for American Eagle the rest of your life? What are you hoping for?

Are you hoping to work for Southwest someday? They only hire about 1 person out of 10 that they interview. Do you really want to fly six short hops a day?

Do you have the dream of flying for one of the legacies like United? Have you watched the news for the last five years?

With too many pilots willing to take crappy pay and work rules, why in the world are you young guys pursuing this career?

Have you taken into account the fact that there are a zillion highly-qualified furloughees in this industry?

If a young person asked me today whether they should pursue a career in the airline industry, I would honestly say no.

This is not flamebait, I'm just trying to understand you guys.

 

[redbook]

What is the difference between a GO JET pilot and a mesa or skywest pilot? They are all working for the lowest bidder. ALPA has said the TSA pilots had the opportunity to do the GO Jet flying, played hardball and lost.

Please go back to bashing JetBlue, AirTran etc. You don't even support airlines in your own union. Your idea of a union is everybody bending over to make sure you get yours. That would be the good 'ole days in your book. Thanks for the support.

TSA pilots playing "hardball"? How is that even possible? do you know how many pilots have been fired for no reason at this airline, you sanctimonious ignorant jackas!!

 

[redbook]

Big Slick, I agree.

 

[temcgrew]

I have a question for some of the younger guys. Why are you pursuing a job as an airline pilot? What are you hoping to get out of it?

Are you going to be happy flying for Virgin America or Jetblue? Have you seen the pay rates for a Jetblue -190 FO? Why do you aspire to that job? Can you live in NYC on $37k per year?

Do you want to work for American Eagle the rest of your life? What are you hoping for?

Are you hoping to work for Southwest someday? They only hire about 1 person out of 10 that they interview. Do you really want to fly six short hops a day?

Do you have the dream of flying for one of the legacies like United? Have you watched the news for the last five years?

With too many pilots willing to take crappy pay and work rules, why in the world are you young guys pursuing this career?

Have you taken into account the fact that there are a zillion highly-qualified furloughees in this industry?

If a young person asked me today whether they should pursue a career in the airline industry, I would honestly say no.

This is not flamebait, I'm just trying to understand you guys.

There are alot of guys at TSA that are not "new guys". Alot of the guys being displaced are furloughed from majors. Actually, I agree with you how pitifull it is. And it's terrible at TSH, so all of you young guys, just STAY AWAY from G0Jet! It's bad enough as it is.

 

[HAZ-MAT]

If a young person asked me today whether they should pursue a career in the airline industry, I would honestly say no.

I disagree with you there. I don't like to shoot someones dreams/goals down. So I tell them to flight instruct until 1200 hours, and go fly night freight for a few years bypassing this mess you call "regionals". 3 or 4 years later you have quality flight time that hopefully can place you into the Fractual market or use your type raiting at a part 91 outfit.
The other option I tell them about, which I didn't persue (however if I was a college grad now i'd seriously look into) is the military. 20 years and you have a government pension/ benefits. You might have to move a lot, but everything is paid for!
cheers! :beer:

 

[instructordude]

I have a question for some of the younger guys. Why are you pursuing a job as an airline pilot? What are you hoping to get out of it?

Are you going to be happy flying for Virgin America or Jetblue? Have you seen the pay rates for a Jetblue -190 FO? Why do you aspire to that job? Can you live in NYC on $37k per year?

Do you want to work for American Eagle the rest of your life? What are you hoping for?

Are you hoping to work for Southwest someday? They only hire about 1 person out of 10 that they interview. Do you really want to fly six short hops a day?

Do you have the dream of flying for one of the legacies like United? Have you watched the news for the last five years?

With too many pilots willing to take crappy pay and work rules, why in the world are you young guys pursuing this career?

Have you taken into account the fact that there are a zillion highly-qualified furloughees in this industry?

If a young person asked me today whether they should pursue a career in the airline industry, I would honestly say no.

This is not flamebait, I'm just trying to understand you guys.

I'm pursuing a career in the airlines for a lot of reasons BigSlick. For one, I believe it is a prestigous and well paying career contrary to what some on this board are saying. Where will I be in 5 yrs, hopefully at a Legacy and making some big bucks!

In terms of pay and work rules I still don't get it. JetBlue is paying guys 37/hr to fly a new jet and people are unhappy. I am confused, my mom is a pharmacist and makes only 45/hr. A guy starting at jetblue makes only 8/hr less. A lot better than the 11/hr I make right now. 37/hr is some hard core cash in my opinion. I guess it is all relative t o your own situation. I mean, I look at mom and think god what a boring job, nothing like flying a jet! So, that's why Iwant to do it.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I'm pursuing a career in the airlines for a lot of reasons BigSlick. For one, I believe it is a prestigous and well paying career contrary to what some on this board are saying. Where will I be in 5 yrs, hopefully at a Legacy and making some big bucks!

In terms of pay and work rules I still don't get it. JetBlue is paying guys 37/hr to fly a new jet and people are unhappy. I am confused, my mom is a pharmacist and makes only 45/hr. A guy starting at jetblue makes only 8/hr less. A lot better than the 11/hr I make right now. 37/hr is some hard core cash in my opinion. I guess it is all relative t o your own situation. I mean, I look at mom and think god what a boring job, nothing like flying a jet! So, that's why Iwant to do it.

Ouch! You have fallen for the old "per hour" trap. I hate to be the one to break it to you, While your Mom's 45 an hour for 40 hours a week gets her about 93k a year....that 37 an hour at an airline gets you a whopping 37k a year.

You are only paid for the time the airplane is off the gate, a full month at a an airline is only 85 hours a month...95 if you work your days off.

Heck I make $72 an hour and your mom hauls in a lot more money than I do. In fact at your moms stated pay rate she makes more than I ever have in a year, and my resume includes a legacy carrier(737) and Boeing 747's for a freight outfit.

Kind of changes your view on that $37 an hour at Jet Blue and that $45 an hour pushing pills huh?

 

[FN FAL]

Ouch! You have fallen for the old "per hour" trap.

The girl with colitis goes by.

 

[instructordude]

Ouch! You have fallen for the old "per hour" trap. I hate to be the one to break it to you, While your Mom's 45 an hour for 40 hours a week gets her about 93k a year....that 37 an hour at an airline gets you a whopping 37k a year.

You are only paid for the time the airplane is off the gate, a full month at a an airline is only 85 hours a month...95 if you work your days off.

You are correct good sir!! I am learning, please excuse my mess.

Funny thing about being a pharmacist is that she probably works about 55 hrs a week. Ouuucchhh! Not to happy and I can't wait to move out so I don't have to deal with it.

37K might not be a lot money to some but it is to me and when I look at some folks and how hard they work well, I'm just lazy and want money without the 55 hr weeks. Someday, I'll get there!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You are correct good sir!! I am learning, please excuse my mess.

Funny thing about being a pharmacist is that she probably works about 55 hrs a week. Ouuucchhh! Not to happy and I can't wait to move out so I don't have to deal with it.

37K might not be a lot money to some but it is to me and when I look at some folks and how hard they work well, I'm just lazy and want money without the 55 hr weeks. Someday, I'll get there!

Problem is that you still have the 55 hour weeks in the airlines. My last duty day was 20 hours (international) and paid for 14 (Heavy crew) and my average duty day at the Major was 12 hours a day, while getting paid for 5 or 6.

A good four day trip at a major is paid 15 to 23 hours....but you were gone from home for 250 to 270 hours to get paid for 85. Right now I am on a 16 day schedule, gone 16 days straight, most of the time on an almost 12 hour time difference from home, day one back home my wife has learned to not bug me since I am a zombie for the first 24 hours or so while trying to get back to a normal sleep schedule after day and days of seeing the sun both rise and set between takeoff and landing.

Don't get me wrong, It beats digging holes for a living, but it is nothing like the movies or what the ratings factories tell you.

 

[Fox-Tree]

I'm pursuing a career in the airlines for a lot of reasons BigSlick. For one, I believe it is a prestigous and well paying career contrary to what some on this board are saying. Where will I be in 5 yrs, hopefully at a Legacy and making some big bucks!

:laugh: Prestigious? Yah, right. This ain't the 1960's anymore.

5 years from 850 hours of recip to "Legacy and making some big bucks". Pretty realistic timeline you've got there slick. :erm:

 

[Fox-Tree]

....A good four day trip at a major is paid 15 to 23 hours....but you were gone from home for 250 to 270 hours to get paid for 23. ...

4 days x 24 hours = 96 hours TAFB. Not sure how you get 250-270 TAFB out of a 4 day trip.