Question for PC-12 operators...

[Redman]

Dealing with real rough numbers, how many hours do figure you need to charter to start making a profit after factoring in your operational costs to include the pilot? Again just trying to get ballpark numbers.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wooferdog]

Most PC-12 charter operators are leasing theirs on a "per hour" basis from the owner.

Of course, the owner is taking advantage of the bonus depreciation.

At $25-35K per month, the numbers do not come out unless the lessor provides it on a per hour basis.

 

[100-1/2]

Why?

If you are buying new, it will never get to you before you go broke making payments on the loan for the deposits and most factory maintenance shops will rob you blind after you get it.

If you are buying used, the market is very slim and most are retreads from recent years of operators figuring out the maintenance robs you blind and the advertising numbers for operating cost just do not add up.

I did it, loved the airplane, performance, multi-mission capability and ran profitably even with the down time from Pilatus Authorized shops that cater to the Part 91 operation that could schedule 100hr/annuals 6 weeks out. I won't name names, but their initials are Sky-Tech.

Margins are slimmer along with mission capabilities, BUT,

You can get a BE 200 and a Caravan for the cost of 1 Pilatus. and have a much greater maintenance flexibility on the road and both aircraft working at the same time. Pilatus, while great is overrated and overpriced due to an inflated demand compliments of only 40 to 60 manufacturing positions annually. At last check, first available slot is Spring 2009.

Go ahead cf, fire away.

100-1/2

 

[Geronimo4497]

Pilatus built 90 PC-12s last year. 90 next year. 115 in 2009.

I would like to see how one can buy a 5 year old King Air and a 'Van for the same cost as a PC-12. Fuzzy math there. :laugh: A ratted out high time '80s King Air perhaps, but there is just no way with a newer one. Your problem was that you did not come up to Atlas in NH for your scheduled inspections!

I am concerned about them pricing themselves out of the market, however. Close to 4mil for the next generation airplane.

 

[Redman]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have someone looking to buy for personal use, but lease back for charter. Probably looking at a used one and as I am finding out, it is a slim market indeed. The owner will only fly about 20 hours a month, so, again, just trying to get a feel for how much charter work it would need to fly to pay for itself and maybe make a few bucks.

 

[xrated]

Thanks for the replies guys. I have someone looking to buy for personal use, but lease back for charter. Probably looking at a used one and as I am finding out, it is a slim market indeed. The owner will only fly about 20 hours a month, so, again, just trying to get a feel for how much charter work it would need to fly to pay for itself and maybe make a few bucks.

So basically what you're saying is this "someone" can't afford the airplane and is looking for a way to fly on a private airplane without having to pay for it!

If it were that easy we'd all be flying on Gulfstreams.

Hope you don't work for this "someone".

 

[Redman]

Ummmm no. He just wants to try and make it more of an economic tool than a toy. Pretty common from my experience. But thanks for your pearls of wisdom.

 

[xrated]

Pretty common from my experience. But thanks for your pearls of wisdom.

Oh, ok. No problem. I guess you've seen a lot of people making money in airplanes with your regional experience.

I'm just saying with my 10 years of 135/91 experience it's difficult to make a profit for a person that plans on using a single airplane for personal use and for charter use. It's even harder to work for said person when he/she expects to make money with an airplane. As someone above mentioned, most folk with $ appreciate the depreciation value come tax day. Chartering can certainly defer some costs, but breaking even aint so easy.

With rough numbers, better plan on chartering the thing 45-50hrs a month to cover the costs, then you said you'd be looking at another 20hrs of personal flying. Good luck with that!

 

[Redman]

The experience I reference is from helping others do just that- purchase an airplane and lease it back to a charter operator. I'm not trying to get into a pi$$ing match, just trying to learn something from PC-12 operaters. If my intent was the former, I would have entitled the thread "Hey, Looking For a Pi$$ing Match".

I do appreciate your rough estimate, however.

 

[bizjet800]

Aircraft and profits shouldn't be in the same sentence! ANY aircraft that is leased back won't make the owner any money, it will simply defer the costs and help come tax time. Sounds like your owner has been talking to some management companies that are telling him what a great revenue tool a plane can be! Here is all the proof you need: go in to any charter company and ask them how many of their planes they own. Their answer should tell you how unprofitable owning a plane is.