Question for past and present CFI's

[Earl Williams]

I just started instructing a couple of months ago, and had a question for some of you seasoned CFI's.

Although the school that I instruct at offers 141 training, all of my students have chosen part 61 (for one reason or another). Having done the majority of my training part 141, I'm accustomed to religiously following the Jepp syllabus when it comes to flight and ground training. My instructor didn't spend a lot of time reviewing ground material with me, as he had faith that I was keeping up with my bookwork per respective lesson. If I had questions, I would be sure to ask him, and he would oftentimes quiz me just to make sure that I was studying. Call me crazy, but I actually enjoyed the readings!!

Now, I'm finding myself "trusting" that my students are keeping up with the bookwork that I assign...while I'm starting to think that maybe I shouldn't? The majority of my students are older, parent types that hold down full-time jobs, and admit that they don't have a lot of time to read. I continue to stress how important the academic part is to their training, yet I just don't feel that they're taking it as seriously as they should be. I find that they're extremely focused on the flight training part, yet feel that some of them take a "I'll learn it, I promise" approach to subjects such as systems, airspace, etc (they're all at the pre-solo level). I've started to crack-down on the students whom I feel are not devoting enough time to their studies by mandating ground school on days scheduled for flights. That doesn't seem to go over too well with them, but tough!

I was just curious what you all may recommend. Should I initiate stage exams (similiar to 141) to make sure that they're up to par? Of course, those are open book, so I'm not sure how much they could help (of course, I guess I could make them closed book!). Or, after periodically quizzing them, and finding that they're not up to speed on their readings, postpone flights until they're caught up? I'm MORE than happy to teach them everything they need to know, but honestly don't understand why they would want me to do so...IF they can simply take the time to study!

I want to be proactive on this issue in hopes of avoiding, down the road, doing a mock oral in prep for their checkride...and finding out their knowledge level is unsatisfactory.

Thanks for everyone's replies...I appreciate it!
-Earl

 

[bobbysamd]

Part 61 students

First of all, congratulations on getting your CFI. You are making real progress.

You know what happens when you "assume." You can never assume, even with dedicated 141 students. A good many of them slough off unless they're pushed. You have to ride herd on all of your charges in any training environment. Some need it more than others.

Your Part 61 group may very well fit in that category. It is typical adult behavior to concentrate more on the flying than the ground work. I know. I was that way when I first started flying. Flying is fun. Studying is, well, not fun. But when I finally took the Private written and acquired its knowlege I realized how much having that knowlege helped my flying.

Perhaps you might point out to them that if they cannot demonstrate an adequate level of knowlege that they are really not safe to fly in the airspace. You might have to use the element of threat, being that they will not solo until they demonstrate adequate knowlege. Of course, they at least have to pass their pre-solo written before you solo them.

I would not institute 141-style stage tests. That will not go over well at all. Stage checks are fine in a professional school environment, but will be a turn-off to adults who are just learning to fly for fun. Better to point out that demonstrating adequate knowlege at each step of their training is required for them to progress to succeeding steps.

Finally, don't be surprised if you find yourself spoon-feeding many of your group. In Part 141 you don't have to put up with much of that because students are, as it were, inmates in the institution. But Part 61 students can leave at will and you very much will have to prod them more to learn.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your instructing. You've come a long way since you last posted.

 

[avbug]

Your students are adults, not children. They're individuals. Treat them as such, and work with them individually. Rather than rely on the student doing all the work, cover the same material as you're instructing. You can review the material in person while preflighting and during the flight, and after...without much difficulty. You'll know what they need work on, and you can cover it in person. No big deal.

Don't rely on assigning work and then testing them to see if they've done it. You're working for them. Not the other way around. Sometimes instructors lose sight of that.

Remember, too, that there are instructors, and there are teachers. Instructors follow a syllabus and preach from a book. Teachers communicate, open a student's mind, and help the student to understand. Instructors are a dime a dozen, and teachers are priceless. Which are you?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I work with students who are both self-motivated and doing their ground school via home study.

Nevertheless, it's not a bad idea to incorporate some kind of quizzing to make sure that they are learning and understanding the material.

A lot can be done in the normal give and take of flight training. Ask aircraft system and inspection questions during preflight. Questions about the "rules of the road", airspace, and VFR minimums can logically be done orally.

But sometime you have to go a bit further. Gleim's test prep software has the ability to print out tests. You can select a topic, ask for 10 or 20 questions on it from the FAA test database, including figures, and have the student do it in just a few minutes.

 

[FSB99]

what i used to do was always, early on, explain and make sure they understood that there was a certain amount of study time they would need to do for themselves. in the absence of them finding time on their own to review the materials, i would stress that it was okay for them to neglect the home-study duties.. however, i also always followed that statement up with an explanation that the material needed to be covered, either on their own or with me. so if they couldn't find time to do it away from the airport, it was no problem, we would dedicate however many days needed to go over this stuff together at the airport.

obviously i got different reactions to this approach. one student came completely unprepared for his first cross country, and within 2 questions of quizzing him on things such as courses and headings, it was obvious he didn't review anything i had asked him to. so, i explained to him that flying the cross country this underprepared would do him no good at all, and we would have to cancel the airplane, and go over this stuff together, right now, plan on the flight next time. he did't like it one bit. but, we briefed for almost 2 hours. not very much probably sunk in because he was upset that we weren't flying, and that i was being a bad guy by not letting him just go learn through experience. however, the next time i gave him some things to review, i.e., oral exam prep, he was very much prepared.. because he remembered my original statement.. if you can't find time to do it at home, we'll just do it here.

another student very much appreciated my approach.. she usually did find time to go over the stuff i asked her to. however, if she didn't have the time, she straight up told me so when we met for the lesson, and accepted the fact that we wouldn't fly today, but ground school instead.. because she didn't have time at home.

long winded, sorry, but most of my students were adults as well, businessmen and women, and i tried to make sure they realized i wasn't saying that ground school was going to be punishment for their failure.. but rather, it was material that needed to be covered, and we could either cover it together, or they could cover it on their own.. either way, it Would be covered.

 

[skychaser]

I always spend .5 to 1 hour with each new student before their first flight to explain to them what they can expect from flight training. During this time I make a strong point that flying is the easy part, knowledge is the hard part and the less they are prepared for each lesson, the more it will cost them in the end. Due to not understanding WHY they are doing slow flight etc. and why the airplane performs as it does.

I also tell them that the sooner they get the knowledge test done, the easier their trainiing will be. Most have taken the written by the time they solo for this reason. If they take the written you at least know that they have covered all of the material in a rote fashion.

I also let them know that flying is not inherantly dangerous, unless you don't know what you are doing. The prepared and educated pilot will have a longer flying career. This seems to drill it in fairly well. Out of 18 students that I've trained through completion I've only had one who didn't do the home studying necessary. Nearing the end of his training I told him that we weren't going to fly until he took the written exam. He finally got it done.

 

[Timebuilder]

Good advice.

I think you will work a little harder with the part 61 adults. Quizzing is good, as Mark said.

Particularly with today's new opportunities for airspace violations, your students need to show you that they really do understand the material, which Bobby emphasized.

A good ground school program, like the Cessna CD's, can ease your workload and perhaps let you squeeze in another student each day, making you more productive. Adults like the interactive "movie-like" aspect of this kind of training, and they can do it whenever they want. Adults need flexibility, and this gives them that option.

Good luck to you.

 

[Riddle momma]

I agree with everyone. All my teaching has been done part 61 with full-time professionals. What I have found, is that the students are paying for the training on their own, and as such, you can aim your statements in that direction. "The more you do on your own, the cheaper, and faster you will get done". Most of the time I don't have to use the statement because I have found that they are pretty motivated themselves. However, being proffesionals and having a family, the ground school can really lag behind.

Seeing as how they are paying my rent and bills, you can't put too much stress on their training, and can't hold ultimatums up to their face, but at the same time, you can't just let them walk all over you. I had one guy who constantly fall behind, and wouldn't listen to my advice. Finnaly, after the third XC we cancelled because he wasn't fully prepared, I said screw it, and we went. Needless to say, he was so far behind the airplane and so clueless as to what had to happen (of course, I didn't help him one bit) that he never did that again. --Shock therapy I call it

Sometimes you will find yourself spoonfeeding your students time after time after time, and they still won't want to learn. All they want to do is fly. Try hard to make them learn, be resourceful. If it doesn't work there comes a time when you have to be blunt about it. I ussually will just ask a couple of basic questions that I know I have gone over with the student, and really make them see just how little they know, and how dangerous they are being. Don't tell them, let them tell you!!! It's more of an impact that way.

Good luck!

 

[ShinerBocknabtl]

First and foremost, who is Riddle Momma??? I'm interested, I used to instruct there for 2 years. On the student issue, lots of good experience and ideas previously posted but I just wanted to add that at the stage of training your students are in they don't see the "big picture".

They don't understand why they need to know airspace, systems, regs, etc. And you can't really expect them to know why they need to know it but that's where the flight training comes in and they'll be able to reach the stage of correlation . One hand washes the other but they'll soon find that out on their own. Instructing is a tough business and it'll really make you appreciate what you have later on not to mention the experience you're obtaining whether you realize it or not.

If they don't study then they don't study, nuttin you can do about it other than compromise YOUR flight time. Not that a little motivation doesn't hurt from time to time but afterall they are pre-solo students, they'll cum around.

 

[ShinerBocknabtl]

One more thing to add. It was my experience with students that wouldn't study to take them up on a flight as an observer with a more advanced student....say take the loser private guy up on a commercial or cfi flight. That usually was a HUGE motivator to just let them sit back there and listen and watch what's going on cause they get curious real quick like.