Question for Out-of-Work Pilots

[Typhoon1244]

Overall things are pretty good at my company right now...but then, that's what my mom and dad thought before March 4, 1989 (the Eastern strike). So my wife and I have been talking about a "disaster plan"...exactly what things we have to do if something happens to ASA. It'd be nice to have a step-by-step plan to deal with a sudden loss of income.

Does anybody out there have such a plan? Or do any of you who've suffered a furlough have any suggestions along these lines? Before we started talking about it, my wife and I wouldn't even have known which way to turn first. Any thoughts?

 

[MetroSheriff]

With a stocking-mask and a Saturday night special you could start knocking off the local Gas-n-Sips.

Go buy a webcam and charge weirdos on the internet $5.99 a minute to watch you twirl around in womens underwear.

That's just a couple of ideas off the top of my head. Give me the night to mull it over and I'll see what else I can come up with for ya.





By the way Cappy, are we going to do lunch anytime soon???

 

[FL240]

I wouldn't say that we have a plan, but my wife is fortunate enough to have a very flexible employer. When I was working full time she would only work 20-25 hours a week so she could be at home most of the time with our son. When I got laid off she was able to go back to full time right away. I have been instructing and doing some contract work when I can get it ( and now I stay home mainly ). I guess we just try to live within our means and constantly evauluate what we can afford if we are suddenly cut to just one income.

 

[New2Flying]

Overall things are pretty good at my company right now...but then, that's what my mom and dad thought before March 4, 1989 (the Eastern strike). So my wife and I have been talking about a "disaster plan"...exactly what things we have to do if something happens to ASA. It'd be nice to have a step-by-step plan to deal with a sudden loss of income.

Does anybody out there have such a plan? Or do any of you who've suffered a furlough have any suggestions along these lines? Before we started talking about it, my wife and I wouldn't even have known which way to turn first. Any thoughts?

Well, first and foremost, if you have credit cards, do your best to pay them off. If you own a house, get a second mortgage and consolidate any debt you have and write off the interest at the same time. Then - cut the cards up. If you have student loans, get them consolidated as well. If you can refinance your home, so that while rates are low.

Do not buy a bigger house because you get a raise. Live within your means.

Further, you should not be thinking just about if something happens to your airline, you need to think about if something happens to you. I recently got a Loss of License insurance policy on myself and upped my coverage at work on the Life Insurance. If something happens to me, my family is covered. I hate having to pay for insurance, but you just never know what life is going to deal you. Make sure you are covered on your spouses health insurance at their place of work. If you lose your benefits, you could have to wait months to get on the other plan. Paying COBRA insurance is a huge expense for someone who is out of work.

Take advantage of unemployment and the other services offered to you through your state. When I was furloughed, I took advantage of everything I could. Why? Well, I had put into that system for so many years, I figured it should come back to me instead of to a person who had never worked in their life and just popped out kids to get more money. Some states pay for training via the Workforce Investment Act for employees of affected industries (i.e., massive layoffs).

Some people say that you should have at least 6 months of salary saved in the bank to cover your bills. Be careful with this one though. If you apply for state aid, they take all that into consideration. You can take your money and put it into Govt Bonds and then there is no tracing it. If it matures, then you have made a little bit of money. If not, then they are liquid.

Those are just some of the lessons I learned after being furloughed. Hope that helps!

 

[WrightAvia]

yea...

One part of my plan was to have enough quality time before going off to the regionals, so that a "washout" or a "furlough" would not be as devastating as what I had seen happen to some of my lower time friends.

The second part of my plan, was the fact that I have great "non-aviation" related job experience, that I can rely on, so I could get good non-aviation related employment, should a furlough occur.

The third part of my plan...actually who am I kidding...it was no plan, it was luck. Be in a flying job that isn't as economically affected by a big down turn, when the downturn comes around. You really can't plan for that. It's luck.

 

[njcapt]

If possible, have a couple of months mortgage payments saved up. The conventional wisdom says you should have six months earnings saved up, but I've never earned enough to achieve that kind of cushion (massive rationalization alert). I would tap any equity you have in that house in Keller with a home equity line of credit. Set it up, but don't tap it. There are a number of places that will give you 100 or 110% loan to value on your house. If you need it, you can quickly re-appraise the increasing value of your house and tap that equity as needed for an extra $300 or so for the appraisal. I would also arrange for a couple of low rate credit cards that have a low or no annual fee. You need to do both of these BEFORE you get furloughed to count on getting qualified.

Most of your utility companies have payment plans that let you spread your annual bills out over a twelve month period. We use natural gas to heat water and run the furnace here in Chicago, and gas prices always spike about 40% in the winter. The payment plan spreads your annual payments over 12 months and moderates the winter spike in prices. If you get the axe in April or May, this wouldn't help, though if it came in September, you could save upwards of $75 a month. In Texas, you might save by averaging your electric bills instead of paying the massive summer bills by their selves.

The shlt hit the fan for me when I got furloughed (for the second time) back in 1994. I had seen the writing on the wall a year before. My wife and I sold our house in Chicago and moved to a vacation house my father in law owned in North Carolina. We could live there for the cost of the utilities and other costs related to commuting from the middle of nowhere. If you have the opportunity, I would keep an option like this open.

Keep your logbook and resume up to date. Folks that got caught with their pants down when Vanguard went Tango Uniform lost scores of seniority numbers when they finally got hired at ATA, AirTran, Frontier, etc. I have my logbook next to me right now, since I looked at it when I got back from my last trip and realized that I hadn't updated it in five months. Yeah, I've got a great job at ATA and don't plan on leaving, but I sincerely believe in the airline kharma that dictates that as soon as your logbook gets a year behind, you will be furloughed.

Last thought. Keep kissing the ass of people you know in the industry. I had absolutely no contacts in the airline industry when I got furloughed for the first time back in 1992, and was one lucky fokker when I got hired by Allegheny after only two months of belt tightening and anxiety attacks. It truly is 'who you know' rather than 'what you know'.

Res ipsa loquitor.

 

[mar]

No financial advice here

If you knew me at all you'd be smart enough to avoid any financial advice that I offered.

But I've been fired once and furloughed twice. It took me seven months to recover the first time, four months to recover the second time and two weeks the third time. So, I'm gettin' pretty good at it, I think.

NJCapt is right. Always be in job search mode. Always have everything up to date. Always network.

And then network some more.

You just never know...

For example, the last time I was furloughed, I found out while having lunch in the hotel restaurant during my recurrent checkride in SEA.

My FO told me.

 

[jethro38]

A couple of additional item to the before posts. The 6 month financial cusion is a nice thing to have.
I couldn't agree more on having your resume and logbooks up to date. Tailor your resume, so that you have more than one available. One for a pilot job and one for Business Management or sales, what ever your back up occupation is. If you don't have a backup occupation, NOW is the time to get one. We all love to fly but statistics say you'll be on trhe streets once in a career, if not more in the Airline industry. A piece of paper saying that you have a Masters is a good thing to have in your pocket. There are a lot of Universities that do online Masters programs. You can take your Computer with you and on a layover knock out a lot of work, reading and studying. If you aren't into the masters thing try getting your real estate license for your state and see if you can affiliate with a realtor group. Some guys I know do real estate and Home refinance on their off time and that has saved them when they were fuloughed.

Best Advice I recieved from a captain:

Keep your first house
Keep your first wife
Drive every car for 10 years
Never take investment advise from another Captain


R,
Jethro

 

[Typhoon1244]

With a stocking-mask and a Saturday night special you could start knocking off the local Gas-n-Sips.

"I'll be takin' these Huggies 'n' whatever cash you got..."

By the way Cappy, are we going to do lunch anytime soon???

My golden days are Oct. 3-6. If you'll get your wife to work it into your schedule somewhere in there, I'll do the same with mine!

(NOTE to those who don't know us: scheduling around an airline, a five year old, a one year old, a one-and-a-half year old, and a five month old is a real pain in the butt!)

 

[freightdogfred]

Buy one of those houses out back of Virginia Ave and open a combo Crashpad/Crackhouse....Plenty of cheap pilots around looking for a bed, and plenty of rock monsters around looking for a dime bag.

If you want to make a 22% return on your money, pay off your wife's creditcards and then cut them up. Financial security has nothing to do with what you make, it's about what you save.
If you save nothing it does not matter if you make a million a year or ATR co-star's pay....You'll be bankrupt shortly.

 

[Kingairrick]

I sold cars....

When you stop laughing, consider this;

Most car salesmen are burnt out dirtbags, who are only working to pay their bar tabs that night. I showed up and busted my a$$, treated it like a profession, and was at the top of the sales board every week.

There are an endless number of people who are lining up to buy new cars based upon "Low Payment," (even in this economy.)

I consider this my fall back position. I made $1200-$1400 a week for the 3 months I was there, just by talking to people and helping them pick out their "dream car" of the week. Hey, it's a living...

 

[Hovernut]

I advize you not to take out a home equity loan to pay off/consolidate credit cards. If you don't pay the cards, what do they do? Just harass you with calls. If you don't pay that 'consolidation' loan, what do they do....take the house!

Check out clarkhoward.com for good financial and consumer advice. He has a very informative radio show based in ATL that's syndicated, too.

 

[Maria]

Read the "Richest Man in Babylon" and "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" even those that aren't furloughed.

Then do something about it.

10% to yourself
20% to debts
50% to live on
and the rest to savings...

Credit Cards don't mean siht when there is no income. BTDT hated every second of it, especially when harrassed by people who know where their next meal is coming come.

www.debthelp.com
www.budhibbs.com

It's nice to rely on a gov't handout but what do you do when they expire?

www.richdad.com -- go to the forums, especially the 'First Time Real Estate Investors' forum

I started in real estate investment. I haven't made much money yet, just more than my first 7 years as a CFI in the first deal.

We pilots conuquered flying, conquering real estate investment is a lot less scary.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Selling Cars

Since I'm getting a medical discharge from the Army and have to wait at least a yr before I go back, (IF I decided to go back) I have also entered the car business. Some of my family members own a couple Acura and Honda stores in the metro Atlanta area. Theres only 4 Acura stores in Atlanta. I walked into a management job with very little experience (I'm the Internet Sales Manager at the Dealership(Acura)). This is my 1st complete month there. I will make more money this month than I have ever made in a month before. The average sales person should sell no less than 8 cars a month. The average commission per car is about $450. I sold around 20 this month. BUT, I have an advantage because I don't work the floor at all like your average sales person. I get all the internet leads, no other sales person gets any of these leads. THey have to depend on walk in traffic or ups as we call them in the car business.

KingAir can tell you that if you look and act professional and follow up with your leads you still should see no less than 8 a month at an average of $450 per car. THats with no experince and no repeat business.

Do I like the car business? Not really. Would I rather be flying for a living making 4K a month? Yes, without a doubt. I plan on working in the business just long enough for my wife to finish law school and get her career started. I was tired and ashamed of having to call on my younger brother and father for money to make ends meet. THats why I tried to enter the military and fly until I got injured. Flying is what I love and I have a passion for it. I looked forward to going to work when I was a full time CFI and and a 135 pilot. I can't say that about the car business. When my wife gets her career off the ground I plan on going back into flying of some sort full time. In the meantime I have a wife and chid (1.5yrs old) to support via the car business. I can't wait to the day I "retire" from the car business and take back up what I love doing for a living and thats flying.

Sorry for the rambling. To answer your question the car business is something you can step right
into with little or no experience and start making a living almost instantly. You should be able to make at least 3,500 a month from the beginning. It just isn't flying though.

On a side note if anyone in the ATL area needs a new Acura or Honda just PM and I will get you what you want and give you the fleet sales price.

 

[Cardinal]

Wouldn't happen to be affiliated with Curry Honda, would it? They were so reasonable that it made sense to non-rev to ATL and drive the car a thousand miles back home. If it ain't, well, they're a stiff competitor, and just wanted to let you know, "were all counting on you."

 

[skyking1976]

I have been furloughed/laid-off 3 times now in the last 2 years. Thankfully, I have been fortunate enough to find work that will get the bills paid. My current job actually pays more than I ever made at any of my flying gigs. I can't say that I don't miss flying though...

SK

 

[bobbysamd]

Disaster plan v. career change

I agree with all the standardized financial advice and planning provided above. It's nice if you have six months' or more income saved up. I sure didn't when I lost two aviation jobs.

Try to learn a job that is steady and pays some money. Paralegal school actually was a career change for me, but it falls into that category. You can obtain the training any number of ways, e.g. a formal school, which is what I did, or from a local college, or even by a correspondence course. You don't necessarily have to work full-time to be in the legal profession. There are plenty of temp agencies, part-time paralegal jobs, and people who contract-out their services.

You generally need a degree to be a paralegal, but paralegal is one field where your major really does not matter at all - unlike some of our discussions in which the merits of an aviation degree are debated.

Finally, we kick around the so-called "pilot shortage," which we all know is not true. What apparently is true is the nurses shortage. Check out this link from CBS and this link from the American Association of Colleges of Nursing.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I'm not at Curry Honda nor affliated with Curry. I'm in the Duluth area.