Question For Delta Pilots RE Pilot to Plane Ratios

[Howard Hughes]

I was just looking at some Delta stats and noticed they currently show 438 airplanes with 6850 active pilots. By my calculations thats aprox 15 pilots per airplane. Is this normal? I also noticed United has 460 airplanes with 8000 active pilots producing an average of 18 pilots per plane.

If this is true (and I didnt screw up the calculations) then doesnt the projections of 200 to 350 pilots to be hired for 2007 seem high unless there would be more airplanes not on the order books coming online? I have also heard another 400 pilots in 2008 which if you look at the scheduled orders for this time period would be high as well? Anyone want to venture a guess or tell me where my fuzzy math is wrong?

• Thirteen additional ex-TWA 757s will be added from Jul 2007 to Jan 2008
• Launching ATL-Lagos, Nigeria in December
• Starting in 2008, lie-flat business class seating on 777s
• Rejected US Airways' hostile takeover offer
• Creditors' committee endorses Delta's independent plan
• Currently interviewing pilots for new-hire classes
• Unlimited jumpseats now for reciprocal carriers
• Selling 38 future 737-800s on order
• Delta placed an order for 10 737-700s and 5 additional B777-200LRs for 2008-2009 delivery Four more 777-200LR orders for 2010 for a total of 9 additional 777-200LRs
• Int'l expansion in 2007: ATL-Prague, Vienna, Dubai, Seoul, and Sao Paulo
• Out of JFK: JFK-London (Gatwick), Pisa, Bucharest
• To serve 36 total trans-Atlantic destinations by summer 2007
• Pilots will receive $650M note and $2.1B unsecured claim due to A-plan termination
• Taking delivery of two 777-200LRs in 2008
• First US carrier to receive 777-200LR (new long range model)
• Signed letter of intent with ILFC to lease 10 757-200s
• Adding flights to South Africa, Senegal and Ecuador
• Delta simplifying fleet to 4 aircraft types by 2008

One other question for those in the know, are the 10 757's to be leased from ILFC completely separate from the AA birds and if yes when would these come online?

 

[tblosser]

I was just looking at some Delta stats and noticed they currently show 438 airplanes with 6850 active pilots. By my calculations thats aprox 15 pilots per airplane. Is this normal? I also noticed United has 460 airplanes with 8000 active pilots producing an average of 18 pilots per plane.

If this is true (and I didnt screw up the calculations) then doesnt the projections of 200 to 350 pilots to be hired for 2007 seem high unless there would be more airplanes not on the order books coming online? I have also heard another 400 pilots in 2008 which if you look at the scheduled orders for this time period would be high as well? Anyone want to venture a guess or tell me where my fuzzy math is wrong?

• Thirteen additional ex-TWA 757s will be added from Jul 2007 to Jan 2008
• Launching ATL-Lagos, Nigeria in December
• Starting in 2008, lie-flat business class seating on 777s
• Rejected US Airways' hostile takeover offer
• Creditors' committee endorses Delta's independent plan
• Currently interviewing pilots for new-hire classes
• Unlimited jumpseats now for reciprocal carriers
• Selling 38 future 737-800s on order
• Delta placed an order for 10 737-700s and 5 additional B777-200LRs for 2008-2009 delivery Four more 777-200LR orders for 2010 for a total of 9 additional 777-200LRs
• Int'l expansion in 2007: ATL-Prague, Vienna, Dubai, Seoul, and Sao Paulo
• Out of JFK: JFK-London (Gatwick), Pisa, Bucharest
• To serve 36 total trans-Atlantic destinations by summer 2007
• Pilots will receive $650M note and $2.1B unsecured claim due to A-plan termination
• Taking delivery of two 777-200LRs in 2008
• First US carrier to receive 777-200LR (new long range model)
• Signed letter of intent with ILFC to lease 10 757-200s
• Adding flights to South Africa, Senegal and Ecuador
• Delta simplifying fleet to 4 aircraft types by 2008

One other question for those in the know, are the 10 757's to be leased from ILFC completely separate from the AA birds and if yes when would these come online?

It is a hard question to answer because it varies based on the type of flying the aircraft does. In the case of the 777 it usually takes 2 full crews to dispatch for the long international flying. The 767ER uses a relief FO but now they are serving Lagos and on that leg will be staffed with 2 full crews. Domestically we usually have 10 per aircraft. I do not know what the number is for the international flying. As far as the 757 there are a lot of rumors right now and I am not sure. It may be additional aircraft and then again it may just be the same ones we have already announced. As far as the 300-400 new hires for the year this may be to cover increased block hours. Also we are short of crews now so some of this may be going toward the current shortage. We are also hearing rumors of new aircraft orders soon after we exit chapter 11. Time will tell.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

One other question for those in the know, are the 10 757's to be leased from ILFC completely separate from the AA birds and if yes when would these come online?[/quote]



I don't work for DL, so not sure if I am "in the know," but from the original press releases; the 10 757s to be leased from ILFC, are the aircraft coming from AA (the ex-TWA). All of the 757s that TW had were leased, I think about 27 total, and AA picked up the leases after TW. The leases are up this year and next and when AA decided to return them to the leasing co. (ILFC), DL signed a letter of intent to lease (10) of them. Not sure where the (13) number keeps coming from, all I ever read is what I stated, they agreed to lease those 10 from ILFC. I believe ILFC owned about 12 (maybe its 13) of the ex-TW birds, so maybe there is an option on the others that would make it 12-13 TOTAL.

Just to try to clarify things; not sure what DL does, but most major/legacy carriers have an average of 6 crews/aircraft for domestic-narrow body ops, and usually about 10 crews/aircraft for widebody/Int'l ops. However, these are just 'averages' and every airline has somewhat different crewing levels.

Hope it helps.

DA

 

[Howard Hughes]

Thanks guys. Looks like as with almost everything at Delta right now its a wait and see situation. Im still confused on the average 15 pilots per airplane and still short equation though?

 

[michael707767]

I was just looking at some Delta stats and noticed they currently show 438 airplanes with 6850 active pilots. By my calculations thats aprox 15 pilots per airplane. Is this normal? I also noticed United has 460 airplanes with 8000 active pilots producing an average of 18 pilots per plane.

don't confuse active pilots with the number of pilots who are actually flying airplanes. Our seniority list has about 6850 pilots on it right now. But, that includes people on sick leaves, PLOA, MLOA, furlough bypass, management positions, sim instructors, etc. The actual number of pilots flying the line is far less than 6850.

 

[FDJ2]

DL signed a letter of intent to lease (10) of them. Not sure where the (13) number keeps coming from, all I ever read is what I stated, they agreed to lease those 10 from ILFC.

I believe the plan is 10 B757s in 2007 and 3 more in 2008.

 

[Howard Hughes]

Thanks guys! I appreciate the info.