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Question for Delta Guys...how does "promptly" work for you?

AMRCostUnit

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We here at AAG, AAL or whatever we are called now, are considering changing our wording in our reserve rules from "reasonably available" to "promptly" as the company says that is what Delta has. We have decades of past practice of reasonably available being defended. Some guys push it too far, like sitting reserve for MIA in TPA, MCO or JAX for example, and that is why they may be looking for the change.

My fear is that they will make up a time for "promptly" and then start discipling pilots for not meeting that time and we will end up with a de facto "airport standby" with local guys having to get crash pads to meet whatever time the company wants to impose. They wanted 2 hours, but that was lined out, so it could be argued that it would be MORE than 2 hours. Now, there are domiciles that like NYC that have to cover EWR, LGA and JFK...no way can anyone meet a two hour window to any of those three. Here in MIA, I'm 1:56 driveway to parking lot. That can be 3-4 hours at the wrong time of day here is South Florida on I-95.

There is much controversy on our MB about how this would work for us. How does it work for you guys on reserve? Do you have a time associated with "promptly" and do you get hauled into the office for not meeting it?

Thanks,
Unit
 

GogglesPisano

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We here at AAG, AAL or whatever we are called now, are considering changing our wording in our reserve rules from "reasonably available" to "promptly" as the company says that is what Delta has. We have decades of past practice of reasonably available being defended. Some guys push it too far, like sitting reserve for MIA in TPA, MCO or JAX for example, and that is why they may be looking for the change.

My fear is that they will make up a time for "promptly" and then start discipling pilots for not meeting that time and we will end up with a de facto "airport standby" with local guys having to get crash pads to meet whatever time the company wants to impose. They wanted 2 hours, but that was lined out, so it could be argued that it would be MORE than 2 hours. Now, there are domiciles that like NYC that have to cover EWR, LGA and JFK...no way can anyone meet a two hour window to any of those three. Here in MIA, I'm 1:56 driveway to parking lot. That can be 3-4 hours at the wrong time of day here is South Florida on I-95.

There is much controversy on our MB about how this would work for us. How does it work for you guys on reserve? Do you have a time associated with "promptly" and do you get hauled into the office for not meeting it?

Thanks,
Unit

We (DAL) have "general vicinity," which means you can't be in another city on short-call. The unwritten call-out time is 2 hours.

NYC and LAX are special cases, one only has to be within "2 hours" of one of those airports.
 

SpauldingSmails

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We (DAL) have "general vicinity," which means you can't be in another city on short-call. The unwritten call-out time is 2 hours.

NYC and LAX are special cases, one only has to be within "2 hours" of one of those airports.

Yep, unwritten specifically - but I believe the PWA states we can use the first two hours of a short call period enroute (out of contact) to your domicile airport with notification to scheduling. For example, your back-up commute flight arrives 1:30 after your scheduled start of short call, you're ok as long as you have notified CS and can report at base 2 hours from the start of your availability period. Kinda convoluted, I know.

When I had a chat with an NYC chief, they seemed to take a reasonable approach to getting into position in that domicile, including Seinfeldian cracks about "The VanWyck."
 
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Bringupthebird

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An argument can be made for keeping the report time vague so as to shield the company from liability for an accident caused by someone rushing to work under threat of reprimand.
 

AMRCostUnit

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Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming. If anyone else has some info on your reserve system and how you handle short call feel free to post it here.
 

Rebound

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Scheduling considers your location and time of the day as well. I live one hour North of Atlanta if there is no traffic. Friday afternoon could easily take 2.5 to 3 hours. They would not fault me for the delay.
 

tab flyer

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We (DAL) have "general vicinity," which means you can't be in another city on short-call. The unwritten call-out time is 2 hours.

NYC and LAX are special cases, one only has to be within "2 hours" of one of those airports.


Actually there is a slight difference, in LA its two hours from LAX, not including any of the other airports.
Haven't been there in a few, trying to get back, I don't think it has changed.
 

daviator

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Actually there is a slight difference, in LA its two hours from LAX, not including any of the other airports.
Haven't been there in a few, trying to get back, I don't think it has changed.

Not entirely true. There is no specific time just a "reasonable time". I've been on reserve for 14 years in LAX (mostly by choice). The few times I've been called on Short Call I told the scheduler I'd get there as soon as I could. I'd then take a shower, pack my bag and drive to work never going over the speed limit and not worry about traffic. Couple of times it took close to 3 hours and never heard a word from the company. YMMV
 

Gutenberg

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An argument can be made for keeping the report time vague so as to shield the company from liability for an accident caused by someone rushing to work under threat of reprimand.


Haha reprimanded for being late to work. What is this world coming to?
 

rjacobs

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I was always told by the AA guys when riding on their jump seat that "reasonably available" was generally considered 3 hours by both the company and the union over a long period of time that the language had been in the contracts. A "status quo" type of thing.

I could never wrap my head around the AA reserve system when these guys tried to explain it. RAP, rest, etc... that could all be changed every day depending on schedulings needs.

I like our system at ExpressJet because its simple. We have 2 hour callout and 12 hour call out. When your reserve assignment ends you are off for the greater of domicile rest(11 hours) or your call out time. So if you are on 3am callout and end at noon, you are on rest until 3am. Or if you are on 3am callout and dont finish until midnight, you dont go on call until 2pm the next day and are done at 6pm and the next day you go back on at 3am. They are always attempting to get you back on your original call out time due to crew planning "planning" on having you available at that time all month. There really is no day to day changes to your call out time unless your rest dictates it.

There are a few changes I would make, but overall its a decent call out system and easy to understand. I wish we had the commuting deal that Delta has where you can use your 2 hour call out to get into position via air. It would make reserve commutable for a lot of guys where its not currently commutable.
 

skypine69

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My friends at Ual tell me short call is 3.5 hours to departure based on normal traffic. Cant imagine not having it clearly defined in the contract....seems like a recipe for the company to jerk you around.
 

Draginass

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AA management doesn't want to change the wording to "Promptly" for no reason. They want a change in contract wording so that previous past practice is no longer relevant and they can define it however they want this week.

How ever it's defined at UAL or DAL has no relevance.
 
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