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Question for DAL pilots

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aeolian

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
69
I believe the DAL MEC stuck a deal with Delta management regarding the NWA merger, a deal which sold cooperation for financial and other returns. Can someone with a clear recollection of how such an agreement evolved share that information. Also, to the extent that my info is correct (that DAL pilots received monies) could someone share just what kind of dollars were involved?

Thanks
 
It wasn't as smooth as you think, and the raises were not as great as you would think. The Delta MEC signed a LOA with Delta without any input from the NWA MEC or the NWA pilots. This passed by vote with about 80 percent of the Delta pilots voting yes. This LOA became the joint contract which went to vote again through both groups. The NWA pilots voted about 80 percent yes (just like the Delta pilots the first time) while the Delta pilots voted about 60 percent yes (they were already working under it; their vote was to put the NWA pilots on it). This LOA was an improvement. It included a 4 percent raise per year and merged the contracts by pretty much taking Delta's contract and adding pay rates for the NWA aircraft while making some very minor improvements. The idea was that we will get huge raises our next contract which we are currently negotiating. We could have gotten a lot more had the two pilot groups actually cooperated. Instead we were focused on the seniority list integration.
 
hockeypilot44 said:
It wasn't as smooth as you think, and the raises were not as great as you would think. The Delta MEC signed a LOA with Delta without any input from the NWA MEC or the NWA pilots. This passed by vote with about 80 percent of the Delta pilots voting yes. This LOA became the joint contract which went to vote again through both groups. The NWA pilots voted about 80 percent yes (just like the Delta pilots the first time) while the Delta pilots voted about 60 percent yes (they were already working under it; their vote was to put the NWA pilots on it). This LOA was an improvement. It included a 4 percent raise per year and merged the contracts by pretty much taking Delta's contract and adding pay rates for the NWA aircraft while making some very minor improvements. The idea was that we will get huge raises our next contract which we are currently negotiating. We could have gotten a lot more had the two pilot groups actually cooperated. Instead we were focused on the seniority list integration.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response but I don't think I said it was smooth or that the raises we're great. What I was wondering about was reported lump sum payments made in multiple installments to DAL pilots as the transaction went along. I don't know if A) the report is accurate or B) if NWA pilots received similiar payments.

I'm really not asking for a rant about "what might have been".

Thanks again.
 
The stock was about on average of 4000 shares per pilot. It was valued at about 4.20 or so a share on the date of vestment. They tried to sell the shares and deposit cash, but that sort of volume would have greatly diluted the overall share price so stock was awarded instead.

The entire deal was done with the concurrence of the NWA and DAL MEC's. At one point the deal broke down, and DALALPA signed LOA 19 which later became the terms of the JPWA.

NWA work rules and wages were made to match the DAL pwa. The NWA retirement targeting plan stayed in place until the end of the agreement which is this year. From SOC forward, all pilots were paid the same and received 5,4,4,4 on Jan 1, plus a 1% the last two years of the agreement in to their DC.

Very little of the NWA CBA was adopted.
 
ACL65PILOT said:
The stock was about on average of 4000 shares per pilot. It was valued at about 4.20 or so a share on the date of vestment. They tried to sell the shares ////who tried so sell// and deposit cash, but that sort of volume would have greatly diluted the overall share price so stock was awarded instead///I don't understand..pilots were given stock but because selling it would drive down share price they were awarded stock??//. Can you elaborate??

The entire deal was done with the concurrence of the NWA and DAL MEC's. At one point the deal broke down, and DALALPA signed LOA 19 which later became the terms of the JPWA.

NWA work rules and wages were made to match the DAL pwa. The NWA retirement targeting plan stayed in place until the end of the agreement which is this year. From SOC forward, all pilots were paid the same and received 5,4,4,4 on Jan 1, plus a 1% the last two years of the agreement in to their DC. // SOC means what? 5,4,4,4 means what??//

Very little of the NWA CBA was adopted.
Click to expand...

Please see my question inside //....//marks

Thanks
 
SOC- Single operating certificate. Both airlines were operating under their own certificate before the merger. Then DAL and NWA merged certificates and received a single operating certificate (SOC).

5,4,4,4. These were the pay raise percentages with the joint contract. 5% year 1, 4% year 2, 4% year 3, 4% year 4.
 
aeolian said:
Please see my question inside //....//marks

Thanks
Click to expand...

Acl is often unclear. What he meant was that the company wanted to sell a massive number of shares to enable the company to give cash grants to the pilots. By doing so, there would have been too much dilution all at once. Instead the company issued stock and the pilots could sell as they sought fit.
 
aeolian said:
I believe the DAL MEC stuck a deal with Delta management regarding the NWA merger, a deal which sold cooperation for financial and other returns. Can someone with a clear recollection of how such an agreement evolved share that information. Also, to the extent that my info is correct (that DAL pilots received monies) could someone share just what kind of dollars were involved?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I may be wrong, but it seems like you asking if the former DAL pilots received something that the former NWA pilots didn't. If that is your question, the answer is no. Pay rate wise, the NWA guys actually got a larger increase than the DAL guys...we got a raise to bring us up to the DAL rates, then everyone got raises from that new starting point. There were some places, like reserve guarantee, where we moved backwards, but overall it was an improvement for everyone at date of signing.

Not going to attempt to address the stagnation or backward movement that has occurred since then...
 
Actually jon, it was not DAL that tired to see the stock, it was DALPA and they used a third party brokerage firm. They determined that, that many shares would dilute the stock and as a result the pilots would not get the best value for the number of shares granted. As a result, they granted the stock directly in to the 401K and the valuation on that day hit your 415 limit.

Most pilots do not care about those details, and that is what I was "unclear" or vague.
 
Red, all of the stuff he is asking is public information, so it really is of little consequence. If you do a string search on DAL and DALPA within the confines of the merger and then specifics, there is plenty of data on the interwebz.
 
RedRum said:
aeolian,

How is our financial payout from a BK any of your business? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Hi Red,

There is not a boogeyman behind my question.

I've had my ass kicked during a previous merger. Unenlightened union leaders on the local level refused to listen to the advice of Ivy league educated lawyers and bankers provided for the express purpose of helping. We got far less than was available had we listened. My questions derive from a wish to know how others did in achieving monies not tied to contractual raises. I thought Delta pilots did recieve (and maybe NWA too) certain payments in connection with the merger. But from what I am hearing I might be wrong.

Thanks
 
We all got the same amount of stock. The stock was cut in too two groups. One group was paid equally to all pilots, and the second one way paid on a ratio of years of service. It leveled it out. The most junior pilots got about 3200 shares and the most senior got about 4200 shares.

That is the same for both premerger pilot groups. That was on top of the raises that the PWA provided.
 
ACL65PILOT said:
We all got the same amount of stock. The stock was cut in too two groups. One group was paid equally to all pilots, and the second one way paid on a ratio of years of service. It leveled it out. The most junior pilots got about 3200 shares and the most senior got about 4200 shares.

That is the same for both premerger pilot groups. That was on top of the raises that the PWA provided.
Click to expand...

Thanks ACL. Maybe what I heard had its origins in a receipt of payment pursuant to one or more of those stock grants (though the total dollars don't match up) so thanks for the info....

aeolian.
 

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