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Question for current 135 guys

ilinipilot

Barely awake in Training
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Posts
367
Total Time
2550
Hello,
I was wondering about applying to Part 135 operators once I am within 100-50 hours of the magic 1200. In an ideal world I would like to ride along on some of the flights, provided they are single pilot to get comfortable with the plane and the operation. Is this a valid option, and would part 135 operators be open to this. I would not log the time and get out, I would want to stay for a while and fly some fun equipment. Please let me know if any of you on this board have done heard of that.
thanks
 

YODA

Semper Fi
Joined
Jun 15, 2002
Posts
57
Total Time
7000
Get the 1200 and then start applying, most part 135 operations won't consider anything less. What they want is to have at least the minimum time, be able to fly instruments, and be able to handle some pretty bad weather. As far as riding along goes, some companies have an SIC program to build time but I do not know much about that. Most 135 ops put you through training quick and before you know it you are flying the line shooting approaches to mins. That is how it usually goes...good luck
 

cvsfly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Posts
723
Total Time
4600
Numbers are never magic. 1200 hrs maybe the number in the regs that allows you to fly Part 135 PIC IFR (don't forget 500 xc, 100 night , 75 instr), but those numbers certainly don't guarantee someone will hire you. The Part 135 operators (especially the small operators) will be getting hit hard by increased insurance requirements. The good news for you is that some previously single-pilot only operators are being required to have co-pilots/SICs for reasonable insurance. The real magic is networking and making the connections that will give you an "in" once you meet a companies minimums. You can always try to get on as an SIC, although I'm sure not many operators will pay much just for that duty assignment and it might keep you from your ultimate goal of building PIC time.
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
I have seen some trends in 135, like the others here have seen.

Many small prop operators are falling by the wayside due to insurance costs. I, for instance, had a nice little side job when I was instructing that allowed me to act as a non-SIC "copilot" for a comapny at my field. I would get to fly the dead legs, and make $100 for the day. Only the dead legs were logged.

This spring, the company sold both of those prop planes, a friend was laid off, and they had no need to call me.

The company that bought the planes was looking at my friend to come to their airport and fly PIC, but that outfit is having trouble getting...you guessed it, insurance.

My feeling is that it may have actually become more difficult to find a right seat job. Airnet is swamped with apps, for example. I made almost 100 calls when those planes were sold. Some called me back, but only to say "sorry, no jobs right now".

The job that I DID find was based on networking. Go for a long drive, visit 10 airports, and bring resumes. No jobs there? Spend 30 minutes making a new friend.

You never know.
 

JetPilot500

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2001
Posts
335
Total Time
5,400
What exactly are you looking for?

To clarify, the 1200 Hour thing is only for PIC's. To be an SIC under part 135 all you need is a Commericial Instrument.

Part 135 includes a lot of things; From a Cessna 210 flying single pilot freight at night to a Gulfstream V flying from New York to Tokyo.

Since there is no hour requirements to be an SIC, I'd start looking at the jet operators too. Having more hours will help, but start introducing yourself to them now. Ideally, a company would have a fleet including Cessna 421, some King Air's and a bunch of jets. With this type of operation, you could eventually get some PIC time in the 421 and/or the King Air's, and some SIC jet time too. Stick with it for a few years and you'll probally get a type rating some PIC jet time too. All would be very good experience. That's a similar route that I took and it worked out very well for me.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500
 

jrav8tor

Moonlighting!
Joined
May 2, 2002
Posts
184
Total Time
3000
I second what JetPilot says. My first instructor got a job sitting right seat in a Lear 55 about 2.5 yrs ago with 600TT 100ME. Now he has near 3000 hrs and 3 type ratings. And as Timebuilder mentioned, he got his job through networking. Networking is priceless in this industry from what I have seen. I have chosen the flight instructor route for now, but I am always open to other options.

Airnet is one company that has an SIC program, which is loggable from what I understand. Doing searches on this board, I also understand once you hit the 135 mins you are automatically changed from SIC to PIC. The airnet guys on the board can verify that if it's 100% true.

There are many ways of getting experience, you just have to decide what your goals are and go for it!
 

PilotOnTheRise

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Posts
215
Total Time
80
--Get the 1200 and then start applying, most part 135 operations won't consider anything less. What they want is to have at least the minimum time, be able to fly instruments, and be able to handle some pretty bad weather. As far as riding along goes, some companies have an SIC program to build time but I do not know much about that. Most 135 ops put you through training quick and before you know it you are flying the line shooting approaches to mins. That is how it usually goes...good luck--

--I agree with what YODA is saying (In fact, I wonder if I know YODA .. "FlexJet 640, exit runway when able, contact ground point niner"...?)-- ;)

Part 135 carriers do not set their own minimums unlike part 121 carriers. A part 135's 1200TT minimum is set by the FAA and thus the carrier has no right to hire someone with less than the 1200TT, unless they have a SIC program, which I believe requires 500TT and is strictly VFR, no IFR. Sending a resume to an airline 50-100hrs short of their minimums is one thing, it is their own set minimums and if they need someone bad enough, than you might have a chance, but not with a 135 carrier. They are running strictly by what the FAA says. My best guess would be for you to fly and gain the extra 50-100hrs you need and then start applying. However, I am no expert, as I am just a student pilot, but from what I hear, applying short of the 1200TT when it comes to 135 is not going to get you a job, it may, however, get your name in the door and let them know you are interested when you do get the 1200. ALSO .. there is more than just 1200TT you need, you will need 500X-C (not necessarily 50NM), 75 Instrument and 100 night.
 

Fr8Dog

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Posts
155
Total Time
2800
JetPilotChris-
To be an SIC part135 I don't know the mins if they are different then just a commercial instrument(multi if it is an A/C with more then one engine). The 500TT is for VFR 135 where you can act as PIC in VFR daytime only.

Ok now onto the orginal question. It can work to your advantage if you send out your resume 100-50 hrs before you actually get the time. That way when you get your time and send it out again they will reconize your name and see that you are presistant and really do want to get a job there. If nothing still after 1-2 months send them an updated copy every time you get another 100 hrs or so. When you are sending these out before you get your 1200tt make sure you include a little cover letter saying that you know you don't have the time, but you will shortly and you want to come work for XYZ company when you get your time, ok you get the idea. I started sending mine out when I had 1050-1100 hrs and it worked for me as when I got my time even a little before I had the 1200tt I had 3-4 135 job offers. I then proceded to decline all of them and took a regional job only to get furloughed after a couple of days and am doing the 135 thing not, but that is a different story. I should add that all the operators I applied to were freight companies and this was pre 9/11 so things have changed. I would reccomend applying to the freight companies because there you are going to have the best chance most likely and you will learn a lot flying freight by yourself at night, and also because it is a $hit load of fun!! Depending on where you live and if you want to move or not will depend on what you find. If you need to know of some freight operators in you area let me know and I will try and help you out.

Fr8dog 4 Life
 

cvsfly

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Posts
723
Total Time
4600
Your "standard" 135 training program should have references to PIC and SIC training. It appears according to an inspectors handbook bulliten that the programs are being standardized. We just upgraded to basic this year and had to conform to a standard outline (they would not even accept a Flight Safety produced program). Other older 135 operators may have widly different programs. There was no question on whether we had a "SIC program" or not, it is already referenced in the body of the program. So - 135 companies are certainly free to set "minimum" times for hiring just like 121, just the FAA minimum to operate PIC in IFR is 1200 (& 500xc/100night/75inst). I glanced at PT 121. Any FAA minimums for PIC other than 121.383? Most 135 operators will need PIC mins, but try to see if any will take on an SIC - just don't expect to get paid much.
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
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n/a
You can obtain employment as PIC under Part 135 with only 500 hours total time for a VFR job. In many cases, VFR-only jobs can lead to IFR jobs; single engine airplanes to multi engine airplanes.

Take a job where you can get it. Don't wait until you meet any magic number set before applying. Apply right now, and keep those resume's going out and the phone calls, follow-ups, postcards, and thank-you's going until you have a job. Once you have a job, don't stop sending those resumes and making contacts. In fact, don't ever stop. You just never know what will happen in this industry; open as many doors as you can, and revel in the opportunity (if it arises) to choose the one you will step through.

Good luck!!
 

bobbysamd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
5,710
Total Time
4565
Job search and 135 (or any other) mins

I agree with Avbug 100%. Don't worry about mins. It never hurts to apply and update. All it takes is a resume and cover letter. You've heard all the stories about right place, right time and luck. Try to hand-deliver your materials whenever possible. Ask if you can introduce yourself to the Chief Pilot when you're there.

Good luck with your job search.
 
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