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Question for AA/CAL furloughed guys.....

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Well-known member
Nov 25, 2001
I am curious how things are going for the AA and CAL furloughed guys. As you may have read on this board the gripes between UAL and UAX. UAL does not have the flow-through agreement as in the AA contract. So are the AA furloughed guys all bumping into the EMB-135/145 and Turboprops yet, how exactly is the program set up? Is there some time length before you get a class date to start flying the Eagle Jets/COEX jets and what kind of commitment is required on your behalf if you get recalled back to AA or CAL I am sure it makes for an uneasy cockpit enviornment. I hope I am wrong, and you can share some insight with how this program works for American and Continental.

Thanks for any information and wishing you a speedy recovery to your origional seat.

- Boz
I understand your frustration, but I don't think it's fair to characterize Eagle's actions as "making the rules up as they go along." Yes, they are trying to protect their pilots. But the 3000 hour rule is not "made up." It is in the FM1. However, time flown at Eagle counts double toward that number. I would think that it is fair to extend that courtesy to American's pilots, and count time flown at American as double. As far as them not allowing the .2 conversion, I'll agree that sucks.

Getting back to the original poster, AA's pilots cannot flow into turboprop spots. They can only displace jet captains. Also, they cannot fill vacancies, they must be displacements. This is important because when an Eagle pilot makes captain, he can declare "Eagle Rights," and thereby waive his flow through, but he is protected from AA displacement. Additionally, even if the pilot chooses not do go "eagle rights" his 2 yr. clock starts ticking for flow through to AA. Also, the flow back is a 1 for 1 agreement, meaning the number that flows back cannot exceed the number that has flown through. The agreement is very complicated, and the lawyers, companies, and unions are still hashing it out. A "flow back" has never happened before.
Yeah but now the AA guys are GOING to fill vacancy slots in all jets that are coming in to eagle...ERJ's and CRJ's...that means no upward movement for quite a while and probably keeps me furloughed for quite a while as well...
go to the alpa website...in the "Letter 3" that was issued, it stated that AA pilots would fill the vacancies in all new CJ deliveries...it then further states the "CJ" is defined as "commuter jet" which means crj's AND erj's...so in other words, AMR is doing what they want and continues to violate our contract because they know they can...
I just got off ALPA's website. Very very difficult to understand what is going on, but apparently the company wants to somehow offer some LAX jet vacancies to AA furloghees. Looks like the Union is going to fight it. It seems to me this would be a gross violation of the aggreement.
yeah, they'll grieve which will take a couple of years to take care of, in the meantime, the damage is done...unless they take them to court now, all jet vacanices go to AA...
I'm looking at letter 3 right now, and I can't find anywhere where it allow AA pilots to fill vacancies. It only allows them to displace Eagle CJ Captains.

If you were furloughed from AA, you might side with me on the fact that AE folks are making a lot of things up as they go along.

I presume you work for AE, but if you can get your hands on an AA Green Book then you'll notice some things...

1. The hour requirements are no-where to be found in the AA-APA collective bargaining agreement. Neither is there a qualifier which states a person must meet or exceed AE FM1 requirements. It only states that a pilot will flow-back and be paid, if the slot is avail.

2. Although in the FM1, AE could request a waiver.

3. When the flow-back info came about, the numbers were 3000TT/1000 multi. A few weeks later it changed to 3000TT/1000PIC. This is coming from AE to me via Claudette Carrol. Ie, it --> appears <-- to be made changing as we go along.

-- For the record, there are mant other things that make this a crummy deal. Not only the .2 conversion for the military folks, but the fact you mentioned being that AE time is doubled for AE'ers...

I am not going to get into a pi$$ing contest nor am I going to argue in this forum regarding the flow-back.

The original poster asked a question and I provided the answers. The way things appear and the way they truly are may be two different things. However, this --> appears <-- to be a fluid, changing flow-back agreement and it is not being implemented in accordance with the Green Book.

My last post on the subject.
FlyinBrian...go to the MEC section then click on "in the loop" and scroll down a little and read past questions and you will get the idea of what's goin on...

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