Question concerning DAL/NWA award

[luckytohaveajob]

What happened to the top 273 NWA pilots and the Long-term sick leave 12 months or longer pilots? What does paragraph 1 and 2 mean as applied by paragraphs 8 and 9?



1. All pilots on long-term sick leave (12 months or longer) were removed
from the pre-merger lists.

2. The 274 oldest Northwest pilots were removed from the pre-merger list.
........
8. The Northwest pilots pulled in paragraph 2. were inserted directly above
the next junior Northwest pilot.
The Pilots of Northwest Airlines, Inc.
and The Pilots of Delta Air Lines, Inc.
Page 30 of 32

9. The pilots on long-term sick leave pulled in paragraph 1. were inserted
directly above the next junior pilot on his/her respective pre-merger list.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

This was the infamous "pull'n'plug".

Basically, all the pilots listed above were "removed" from the list, and the arbitrators moved all the NWA pilots into the slots created (the pull part). Those pilots removed were then re-inserted just above the next junior NWA pilot "the plug".

It was a way to compensate the NWA pilots for their greater anticipated attrition.

Whether or not it was fair compensation is another matter entirely. It is what it is.

Nu

 

[luckytohaveajob]

I understand why it was done and do not want to debate whether it was right or wrong. Can you clarify the process? Thanks in advance.

274 of the oldest NWA pilots and the LTD guys where on the pre-merged NWA list. They were removed from the pre-merger NWA list. Then reinserted where? What does the "next most junior" mean?

Say for example there was an OLD/LTD pilot removed at 10% on the pre-merged NWA list, where was the pilot put on the new list?

 

[PuffDriver]

I understand why it was done and do not want to debate whether it was right or wrong. Can you clarify the process? Thanks in advance.

274 of the oldest NWA pilots and the LTD guys where on the pre-merged NWA list. They were removed from the pre-merger NWA list. Then reinserted where? What does the "next most junior" mean?

Say for example there was an OLD/LTD pilot removed at 10% on the pre-merged NWA list, where was the pilot put on the new list?

The oldest 274 pilots were removed from the NWA list,

The list was then created on a relative basis using 4 different categories, widebody captain positions, narrow body captain positions, widebody f/o positions, narrowbody f/o positions--and their assiciated ratios. Once the list was created, the 274 oldest individuals were inserted back into their proper place on the combined list between the two pilots they were between on the NWA only list. In effect, they were "retired" in order to create the list, yet they were not retired.

Every arbitrator has to do something stupid, and this was his.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Who Dey]

Every arbitrator has to do something stupid, and this was his.

Yes should of used more than 274 pilots. Look at the list in 5 or 10 years and Delta guys will dominate the top of the seniority list.

 

[NuGuy]

Yes should of used more than 274 pilots. Look at the list in 5 or 10 years and Delta guys will dominate the top of the seniority list.

Agree. The number should have been closer to 500. The 274 the list was supposed to account for over 5 years are already long gone.

Nu

 

[PuffDriver]

Agree. The number should have been closer to 500. The 274 the list was supposed to account for over 5 years are already long gone.

Nu

3 things

-everybody retires
-perhaps we should adjust the list every time somebody retires to give NW more of an advantage.
-obviously you two don't understand the pull and plug: it IS 548 numbers. you moved ahead of where you should have been with the pull and plug, then you also move up when the person actually retires.

It was stupid, uncalled for, and unfairly biased. I can compare it to the recent decision from the DOJ on the slot swap.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Mathematically it reduced the overall ratios between the DAL and NWA four category and class ratios established by the equipment.

So if an OLD/LTD NWA guy was at 1%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, etc. on the pre-merged list did the individual reinserted after being removed stay within plus or minus 2% of their pre-merged percentage like all the other pilots?

 

[NuGuy]

3 things

-everybody retires
-perhaps we should adjust the list every time somebody retires to give NW more of an advantage.
-obviously you two don't understand the pull and plug: it IS 548 numbers. you moved ahead of where you should have been with the pull and plug, then you also move up when the person actually retires.

It was stupid, uncalled for, and unfairly biased. I can compare it to the recent decision from the DOJ on the slot swap.

Puff,

And what you don't understand is that the Pull'n'Plug was a accounting contrivance to simply make the arbitrators LOOK like they paid any attention at all to the NWA arguments.

Besides, only the 274 they pulled counted exclusively towards fNW pilot movement. When the golden oldies finally did retire, it was diluted amongest the entire 12,000 pilot list.

It would have been the same either way. Had they not used this, they would have come up with some other scheme to justify their relative integration scenario.

If you didn't go DOH, which, I admit, stacks the deck at the front (which would have evened out over time), the only other way to account for the attrition would have been the dynamic list. A redtail guy would have gotten a 4 percent boost at first, but still would have wound up behind where he would have been down the road at the end, which means someone else moved ahead.

But it didn't matter. Equipment didn't matter. The number of equipment categories didn't matter. "Stovepiping" didn't matter. Retirements didn't matter. Pay didn't matter. Workrules didn't matter. None of it mattered. The arbitration board wanted a relative seniority list, damn everything else, and that's what they gave. The only fair part of the list were the guys that got hired after the constructive notification.

Everything else was window dressing. The only reason it worked was because no one was furloughed, and the DOH/seniority displacements were relatively tolerable.

It is what it is.

Nu