Question-Airline pilots instructing on the side.

[MachBuffet]

I am thinking about buying an IFR SE plane to help get someone I know on their way in this crazy career. I know I really should talk them out of it, but... Even with all of the crap that goes on in this career, here are my thoughts: Some of my friends make more money, some have more stuff, some are home more, but all of them envy what I have. Besides a cop buddy of mine, I am the only person I know who is actually doing what I want to do with my life. I never bring stress or work home with me, and I can go, for free, several times a year to almost any corner of the world. What is that worth? A lot to me. Even with the extreme ups and downs, I truly am happy for the experiences I have had and hope to continue to have. I do not overspend and have never painted myself in a corner like most pilots tend to do. With that said, I can still, with good conscience, recommend this profession to someone who is forwarned and forarmed. I will probably only do a small part of their training. I still have all of my ratings up to MEI. My question is, what are the legal ramifications if I am technically not being paid. Is it still commercial flying? What if this person dings a wing, do I get a 609 ride and lose my ticket, CFI tickets only, I hope. Do I buy the plane using a Delaware Corp. to insulate myself from a lawsuit?

Anyone who has done or is doing something like this who has any input, I thank you in advance. This person I am helping has been in the airline business for almost 10 years at Lufthansa and United, so they know the game.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

Let me get this straight.... You are going to buy an airplane to get a friend started flying? Wow... You're really a good friend. She must be hot...

 

[radarlove]

If the feds feel you are getting anything (anything at all) of value in return for your services, it is commercial flying, at least according to a whole bunch of FAA enforcement actions I read a while back. They even went on to say that simply building time to further a career (there were some odd specifics) could be construed as something that would fall under commercial.

A lot of these were questions of "what's 135 flying or not", but the outcome is the same, are you doing something commercial? I would argue that you're not, but if you land gear-up, you could have your career and license at risk.

On the other hand, I know scores of guys who own airplanes, I've even met a guy who flies for a 135 operator for free when he has a lot of time off. He's never gotten in trouble.

It comes down to whether the feds believe you are really putting all this time into something for zero return. At a certain point, the argument is hard to make that you're 100% altruistic.

I wouldn't do it, if you have a good job.

 

[Alcatraz]

Maybe I missed something... does your airline prohibit you from commercial flying outside of the airline? Some do, some don't, some require permission.

I'll second radarlove's thoughts on the definitions of commercial flying. I've heard that before.

My thought would be, if your airline lets you and you don't expect any conflicts with FAR duty and hourly limits (tough), call it commercial flying and get paid a little for it. Have decent liability insurance (perhaps an umbrella policy that covers you) and call the airplane a depreciable "business asset" for tax purposes. You may get a big tax break from owning an airplane used for mostly business purposes that may begin to offset a small portion of the costs of owning one, plus you might be able to deduct all the other small stuff like charts, gas, maintenance, and even a mileage deduction since it's a "second job."

Or you could maybe get "hired" at a local FBO and only have your one student who rents from the FBO.

She must be hot.

 

[Bringupthebird]

If you don't advertise and you only have one student (a friend) then the IRS probably will classify it as a hobby and not a business. Bye bye tax break.

If you're only using it for the 20 hours or so it will take to get her her instument ticket, you probably won't recoup the amount you'll spend on insurances and buying costs of the airplane.

You might both consider joining a flying club that has such an airplane and will let you teach her in it.

As for encouraging someone in this profession, I wouldn't, but that's me. I would gladly teach the person who only wants a private license to go fly to breakfast or take their kids for rides, but once they want to start on the commercial, they'll have to find a more willing accomplice.

Once aviation begins to owe you something it no longer remains fun.

 

[Phaedrus]

Grumpy

 

[MachBuffet]

In a former life I was in fact known as...Grumpy. Who are you?
To clarify my question-

I have an awesome job at a major. I am also an A+P. I have owned a couple of airplanes in the past and am jonesing really bad for another one. This person would in fact be willing to buy MOST if not all of the airplane (we are talking a simple IFR Cherokee for about $20ish). I get use of a plane for some simple maintenance work in exchange. I would not be paid anything for my dual given. I certainly do not need the flight time. I would only log what I have to legaly to stay current in the plane. My airline allows other flying as long as it does not conflict with my job. I KNOW there are quite a few guys at majors who are also designated examiners charging $300 + a pop for a checkride. They can do it simply because they, per the letter of the regs, are NOT the PIC of the aircraft during the chechride. I came up the civilian way and know how many scam artist there are out there in the flight training world just looking to milk someone as long as possible. I can help/mentor this person AND get an airplane out of it. I don't have/want any kids and frankly need something useful and fun to do with my time and money. I miss GA flying, this airline stuff doesn't get my heart beating anymore. For those of you that may work out of the small Chicago airport, I am thinking of keeping it tied down there and renting it out to help with costs. Anyone interested?