Question about time in Type

[Archer]

Lets say you take a look at the mins for a company you would like to work for. They say 3500 TT, 1000 turbine, 500 in type for whatever jet you want to fly, say a Lear 31A. This is for PIC/captain position.

So you work at this other crappier company that doesn't require any time in type for a FO (see, I don't know if this is even possible) and let's say you get 300 hours as FO, 200 hours as PIC. But you don't like the company you are in, so you decide to apply for the company you've been wanting to work for.

You've busted your arse, sweated it off at a crappy pay, crappy hours whatever...and got your hard earned 500 hours in type in a year or two.

Now you apply for your new company, they accept you as PIC of the Lear 31. You're happy.

After a year or so, you've flown the 31 for another 400 hours.

So you are up to 900 in type for the 31, 600 PIC.

Now let's say you really want to fly a shiny new 45 or 60. But your company doesn't have any.

So you look at one that does, and they ask for 4000 TT, 2000 turbine, 1000 in Lears, 500 in a Lear 60.

Well, here you are with the 4000 TT requirement met, and some 900 hours in a Lear 31, but you dont' come even near close to meeting the Lear 60 mins.

Or lets say you want to fly a Citation Excel....

See my point? All these employers expect you to have 500 or so hours in Type for the airplane you want to be PIC for, or 200+ for FO position...

So my question...do you just stick to whatever jet, or maybe 2 or 3 jets...and that's it?

And how do you enter this game? Do you stick around in a company like AirNet, where they upgrade you to the Lears with no time in type requiremetns, get the time in Type there...and then apply for a Lear job that requires 500 time in Type?

Archer

 

[2000flyer]

Holy Cow Archer.... I had to read that three times! (Just kidding )

In the market for pilots today, there are a lot of well qualified folks out there. Employers have the opportunity to pick and choose whom they want. What I mean by that is they'll advertise their "ideal" requirements.

IE: I have a Citation X. I run my ad in the following way.

Needed, Citation X Captain
5000TT
3000 Turbine/Jet
2000 Citation X
1000 Citation X PIC

Thats my "ideal" canidate. Now, I'll get 500 resumes for this job. Everything from a 750TT pilot who got lucky and rode a 1/2 day maintenance trip with his buddy across the field to a 10,000 hour furloughed airline captain with no corporate experience at all. Plus, I'll get three resumes that fit my "ideal" candidate. Well, candidate one is from San Francisco. He finds out my job offer is in Blue Skies Alabama. So, he turns down the interview offer. Candidate two is from NYC and isn't real excited about Alabama, but is interested enough to accept an interview invite. Candidate three is nutty about Alabama and can't wait to interview. So, I pick 2 and 3 plus the next 5 or 10 whom closely match my "ideal" candidate.

In the interview, number 2 drives through Blue Skies and says "no way in ****". So, he's out. Number 3 is looking good, however, in the interview he really blows it and the first impression. Not looking good for him. However, number 10, a 5000 hour pilot with 1000 PIC in a Citation III nails every part of the interview and I offer him the job.

To make a REALLY LONG story short, most jobs will post requirements for their "ideal" candidate. Now, in today's market, they might get a 100 resumes from pilot's fitting their ideal. However, they'll work around their "ideal" to fill the position with the one they feel is not only qualified, but fits their corporate culture as well.

I really hope this makes sense.

2000Flyer

 

[sydeseet]

Archer,
You should consider becoming a novelist with the imagination and free time you seem to have!!!! I think you missed your calling.

Like 2000flyer said - Companies will fish for the "big catch" first. If that doesn't land anything they'll reduce the size of the bait until something bites that they will keep. It's a dog eat dog world my friend, the water is warm.

 

[Archer]

sydeseet, check how many weeks ago I last posted on this board before this thread, and you'll see how much free time I've got.

2000flyer,

your post makes perfect sense. In a nutshell, you are saying that those "minimums" are not "the rule" but "a goal" for a company.

and what you are suggesting, is that unless you have 2000 hours in the plane you want to fly (or however many), you dont' have much of a chance to get that job.

So...should a corporate pilot choose a jet, and stick to it for the rest of his/her career?

Eg, stick to Lears, so one day you'll have 5000 hours in LR, and you'll have a good chance of flying a brand new Lear 60.

Or, stick to Citations, and one day, you'll have 5000 hours in Citations, to fly a Citation X...

and so on...

If you've been flying Lear 31s for 5000 hours...don't try to apply for a GII job...as they won't give a d@mn about your 4000 hours in a Lear, and will require 1000 hours in a GII

am I seeing this the right way?

Archer

 

[2000flyer]

your post makes perfect sense. In a nutshell, you are saying that those "minimums" are not "the rule" but "a goal" for a company.

True....sort of. Their insurance may set a "minimum", but in most situations, they can negociate with their carrier.

and what you are suggesting, is that unless you have 2000 hours in the plane you want to fly (or however many), you dont' have much of a chance to get that job.

Not True. While it definitely is a plus to have time in type, it's not always the rule. I was hired at my present employer to fly the C560. When I came online they were taking delivery of our 2000. In time I upgraded. How many companies out there do you know that fly two or three different a/c types? Yeah, you might start off in the Lear, but is it worth doing that with the prospect of moving into the Global Express in five years? You're darn tootin' it is!!!!

So...should a corporate pilot choose a jet, and stick to it for the rest of his/her career?

Most of the pilot's I know, the job chose them to fly the jet. The pilot didn't choose the jet to fly for the job!

If you've been flying Lear 31s for 5000 hours...don't try to apply for a GII job...as they won't give a d@mn about your 4000 hours in a Lear, and will require 1000 hours in a GII

Absolutely NOT! with 5000 hours in any jet, applying for every darn job you wish! You just never know what the chief pilot "mood" might be the day your resume lands on his/her desk. I interviewed for a job at a Fortune 500 company several years ago because I had a buddy on the inside. The night before the interview (there were two of us interviewing for one position) he called and said I was probably a shoe in. While I didn't have Lear, Hawker or Challenger experience (the aircraft they were flying) I had jet experience and PIC time and the other guy had minimal turbine experience but also had a buddy who worked there whom got him in the interview. The day of the interview I was surprised by a third interviewee showing up. To make another long story short, number three got the job. He had half the total time I had, and a few hours in a King Air I believe. HOWEVER he was a local pilot and his references were three pages long, most of whom worked in the HR department of that very company!

Keep the faith my friend. Flying only one aircraft type doesn't mean you'll be stuck there forever.

2000Flyer

 

[banned username 2]

When I first got hired at my Company, we were flying Citation III's... My background was Lear 35's, Falcon 10's and Falcon 20's... Never even set foot in a Citation of any kind... I still got hired...

It all depends on the company, there are no hard and fast rules...

and Archer, as we have told you a million times, there are no guarantees in this industry....

 

[rice]

Archer

Falcon Capt. is not completely correct. There is one guarantee in this business and this is it; just when you think you've got it all figured out, right when you've made that really big move (bought a house, car, had a kid, etc.) when the CEO has just publicly said, "all is well". Look over your shoulder and STFB, cause sure as shiit its soon to hit the fan and your entire life is about to go for a spin on Mr. Toad's wild ride.
But its still the best job you'll ever have!!!!

 

[Rick1128]

While things like time in type are not always firm. Other requirements may be. And while the insurance companies generally dictate these to the operator. The operator at time may have his own requirements, based on experience. These will be firm. You will see this a lot with Lear 20 jobs or CE421 jobs, where the operator wants to see time in type. It is based on past experience. Usually expensive experience.

So do keep that in mind.

 

[na265]

2000flyer, great post and info. Remember that knowing someone also helps alot. I was hired to fly a 65 Sabre with "0" turbine time, 100multi and 1700tt. Yeah, "0" turbine. I had been working as a CFI at the same airport and bugged the pilots until I got the job! I am VERY LUCKY. In order to meet the insurance req, I went to FSI and went through recurrent on the 65 with the other pilots. Since that time, I have gone through a full inital and have been typed. I guess what I am saying is to always sell yourself as the best pilot for the job. No matter what type of expenence you have. As a CP, 2000flyer has seen that the guy who meets his published req isn't always the best for the job.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Archer,
"minimums, archer, no runway, go missed"
"archer"
"archer, go missed!"

Archer: "ahh, wait, Im thinking about it, what if I see it soon, what if the lights aren't on bright...uhh.....wait" "maybe I should not have gone this pilot route"

"archer, make a decision, archer...archer..."

"should have stayed engineering, but what about the 1000PIC time.."

SPLAT