Question about time building!

[A Squared]

No 135.299 no logging PIC if operating under 135. Part 91, a different scenario, but at least they are paying, so if they pay, do it. Just dont be a logbook dope and log what shouldnt be.

Well, I'm not a big fan of "sole manipullator PIC", personally, I think that PIC logged when you are not the actual PIC is Bull$hit, but I'm not making the rules. That being said, you can log PIC for time you are sole manipulator of the controls in any airplane in which you are properly rated. It doesn't matter whether you are are 135 or Part 91. If you are legal to touch the controls in the Caravan, you are legal to log it as PIC. There is a difference between *acting* as PIC and *logging* PIC. You don't have to be *acting* as PIC or even *qualified* as PIC, as long as you have the rating for the airplane.

 

[jetracer5]

Hey evertbody! Thanks for all your imput! I have been doing alot of asking around about this and I think I have my anwser! I am going to log SIC until I meet 135 day VFR min's. The 500hr's is total time not PIC....that said when I reach 135 VFR min's I am going to log PIC when I am flying the airplane in day VFR conditions because at that point I am the PIC for that leg. Does this sound right to everybody?

 

[A Squared]

I am going to log SIC until I meet 135 day VFR min's. The 500hr's is total time not PIC....that said when I reach 135 VFR min's I am going to log PIC when I am flying the airplane in day VFR conditions because at that point I am the PIC for that leg. Does this sound right to everybody?

Well, be careful. You may not be able to legally log SIC time in a Caravan. It depends on the situation. The SIC must be required by the aircrafts type certificate or by the regulations.

The fact that you may have been assigned to the flight does not make you "required" If you are flying Cargo, you're not required. If you're flying Passnegers under VFR, you're not required. Only if you are flying passengers under IFR is an SIC required in a simgle pilot aircraft.

Don't fill your logbook with a bunch of bogus time that could get you in hot water later.

 

[CoolGuy92]

One thing I may add here: Don't log PIC time on 135 legs unless you have had your 135 (297/299) rides out of the way. If you log PIC on those legs and you haven't had your check rides its bogus time. If the ops specs say that you can log SIC time than do it.
My .02
Good Luck

 

[charter dog]

FAR 61.51 covers pilot logbooks and what must or may be logged according to the type of pilot flight time. Logging of PIC and SIC time is covered in the below excerpt.

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.

Note that, as pointed out by A squared, if you are rated in the category and class of aircraft, (no type required) you may log all time spent as sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time. The rules under which the flight is conducted is immaterial to the issue of logging PIC time. ACTING as PIC is a different matter. To do that, you must be qualified as a PIC under the rules which the flight is conducted. If 135, several training, testing and qualification requirements will have to be satisfied. You may log PIC time in the Caravan if you are the holder of a pilot certificate with an ASEL rating and are sole manipulator.

Be aware that some airlines have minimum "dispatched as PIC" times required for employment qualification. While logging the sole manipulator PIC time is legal, this time may be disregarded by potential employers in considering your qualification for employment as a pilot with their company. It may be worthwhile to track "acting as PIC" and "sole manipulator" PIC times separately if planning to apply at airlines in the future to avoid the appearance of "augmenting" your PIC times. There's legal definitions and then there's the definitions that get you hired! Check with the companies you wish to work for to find out what kind of flying experience would best qualify you for employment there.

(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of §61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

If the aircraft being flown requires an SIC under either the aircraft type certificate or the rules under which it is being flown, then the SIC time is legitimate and may be logged under the rules. Whether or not a future employer considers this time to be credible experience which qualifies you for employment at their company is up to them. Once again, check with the employers you wish to work for.

Meanwhile, working for this company may help you to qualify for a PIC position in the Caravan in the future or it may give you a leg up in the search for another SIC position in a two pilot aircraft. Get as much multi time as you can and get as much PIC time as you can. Actual IFR experience is also important in landing that first job as a real required crewmember. Teaching will get you ALL PIC time and maybe some actual and multi if you have those instructor ratings. Make sure you get that "acting as PIC" time!

Best of success,

 

[time builder]

The "sole manipulator" SIC thing probably won't get you very far in getting a job, but if you look at the ATP requirements, it requires 500 PIC OR SIC as the sole manipulator. I just made a separate column when I was SIC on a part 135 leg as the pilot flying.

 

[KingAir1985]

...So my plan is to fly the Caravan then CFI on my days off. So in about a year my time should be somewhere around 1,100TT 200ME 400PIC 700SIC. How does this look to interview boards?[/quote]

I think you may have a problem being hired simply for the lack of PIC time. Best thing to do in your situation would be to right seat in the 'Van til you get 135 PIC mins, then get a 135 PIC job and build up your PIC time BEFORE you apply to any regional. They also like to see applicants who can handle more than just "Gear Up, Flaps Up, Shut UP!" Getting into 135 and becoming a company instructor can take as little as 4-6 months in some outfits, and looks excellent on your resume.

This might take a little longer than the year you are planning on, maybe 2-3. Don't let that discourage you, but don't expect yourself to be a shoo-in right at their mins.

You are right. Airlines are not hiring co-pilots, they are hiring Captains.