Question about a violation on ones record.

[leardawg]

For anyone who might have some knowledge or experience with this matter.

Let's say you had a FAR violation some years ago, resulting in a suspension of your certificate. The statute of limitations has since passed, so that your Airman Report sent to prospective employers shows a clean record. What is the legal obligation to report this violation on an application form? (many ask if you've ever had your certificate suspended or revoked) Can and will they find out if you answer no? Is that No answer technically (if not ethically) correct? I have a problem with someone telling an outright lie in response to a direct question, but on the other hand why muddy up the situation if no one expects you to come clean? Any thoughts on or actual experience with this type of situation out there?

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

Hey Dawg,

Welll I guess you are talking about the expungement program that the FAA has. I think most if not all violations disappear after 5 years. As far as the job/application thing, it seems that AOPA and a few other groups have been active in trying to get most major and regional airlines as welll as insurance companies to just ask, "have you had your certificate suspended or revoked within the past 5 years?" If that is the question then there is no need to bring up prior problems. However, if it says "have you ever" then I think you are obligated to tell the truth. Turn it into a learning situation and how you now have a spot free record for the past 10 or whatever years. There are obviously things that you could have been busted for that probably are not that big of a deal. Like flying through a "C" 20 hours after you were awarded a private certifacte. There are others, like flying an illegal charter 20 hours after you got your ATP, that you might not be able to talk your way out of. Hope this helps.

 

[avbug]

There is no statute of limitations for the FAA. As the previous poster noted, certain information is "expunged" or removed from your records (not in all cases) over time. However, if you're asked if you have *ever* had a violation, and you have had a violation, you'd do well to be honest.

I have had two letters of warning and letters of investigation in the past, both of which are long since gone from any FAA records. However, some time ago, even after the FAA records showed clear, an individual from a government agency for whom I was flying sat down across a table during an initial check and said "I have your records here, including both your FAA letters." I didn't give them to him. Where he got them, or how, I don't know, because I'd already requested, and received, my records directly from the FAA, and had them with me.

I never undertook to hide anything; I'd never been asked, and didn't feel any of it important or relevant (it wasn't)...but he found it anyway, and that raised a question as to why I hadn't reported them. (I should add that after a brief discussion, he grinned and said "That's okay. We don't employ anybody with less than two violations, anyway...". I should also point out that neither of my letters resulted in a violation, just for the record).

My point is that if asked, especially if asked with the language specifically have you ever had..., I'd answer truthfully, and be open about it.

With the exception of admitting to your spouse that you served as designated driver to the strip club for operations management on a recent assignment, I generally advocate full openness and honesty as the best policy. Trust me on that one.

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

Thought that was what I said. Guess it need to be said again.

 

[81Horse]

There are, in fact, two sets of FAA "books." They can tell you something will drop off your record in X years, but your double-top-secret FAA dossier will still show everything you ever did or had done to you -- and it will follow you to your grave.

Prospective employers and other civilians (including the airman him/herself) are not supposed to have access to the dossier. Obviously, any fed would.

So much for freedom of information and transparency.

 

[chcook]

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

Be up front. The airlines are run and operated by people who make mistakes all the time. Not being able to own up will keep you out of a job. The last guy you want on the flight deck is a finger pointer, so to speak. They do some pretty serious history/background checks. I've heard of guys getting yanked out of training--not because the company found an actual violation, but something was on their record that didn't get put on the table in the interview. Chief pilots are generally pretty cool when you go to them and say "Hey, you may hear about such and such....I screwed up." That way they are not surprised and can formulate a stance (if talking with the FAA, or other departments in-house) potentially in your favor if they have the time to consider the facts. They HATE suprises.

I had a ride once while doing 135 ops that the FAA decided to "discontinue" (his words) b/c I screwed something up. I didn't "fail" according to the Examiner. Nevertheless, I told my interviewer all about it. They weren't even phased, and I got the job.

Nobody is perfect. They know that.

Good Luck!

 

[leardawg]

I agree that honesty is the best policy. I had a violation as SIC (i.e. "guilty by association") a number of years ago, which resulted in a 7-day suspension. I've always told prospective employers about it even after it was expunged from my record. It hasn't caused me any problems. I was just wondering what the technical answer was, since several people have told me I needn't report it any more.

 

[avbug]

There are, in fact, two sets of FAA "books." They can tell you something will drop off your record in X years, but your double-top-secret FAA dossier will still show everything you ever did or had done to you -- and it will follow you to your grave.

Prospective employers and other civilians (including the airman him/herself) are not supposed to have access to the dossier. Obviously, any fed would.

So much for freedom of information and transparency.

Cute.