Qantas grounds entire fleet!

[General Lee]

.


GL,

With the greatest of respect, I don't think you're aware of how the QF group and their pilots fit together.

QF didn't do any domestic flying until after the pilots' strike of '89, they only flew internationally. When QF bought Australian Airlines, they acquired a domestic network. Hence, they essentially have 2 pilot groups, international and domestic pilots and they are treated as separate groups on very different CBA's. It is the QF international pilots that are trying to negotiate a new CBA and whose work action to this point has simply consisted of wearing red ties and making PA's about keeping QF Australian. The domestics pilots are not taking part in any work action, even though they are also represented by AIPA and are Qantas pilots.

What this is about is "Job security". At its very simplest, imagine that when UAL formed TED, they used UAL planes but different pilots. Not UAL pilots but pilots on a different seniority list, paid less than the UAL guys to fly the same aircraft and whose work rules were far lower. Then imagine that TED grew and started taking over UAL domestic and international routes. This is what has been happening with QF and Jetstar. Jetstar has effectively been eating QF, from the inside out, for the past few years.

Let's just hope there isn't another company overseas that's willing to to bring their aircraft and pilots en-masse and fly the Qantas routes, like America West did in '89.

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like Jetstar is about to get a lot bigger.

BTW, Kenny, are you on the 737, E190, or A330? And, I have been to Australia, and it honestly is one of the most beautiful countries I have ever been to, with extremely nice people. I can hold FO on our 777, but not the SYD flights yet unfortunately.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Kenny]

Jetstar getting bigger has always been the end game, at least in my personal opinion. This move by the management of QF was planned weeks, if not months ago. They had spoken to other CEO's in the Star Alliance and booked extra hotel rooms before the announcement, yesterday.

They have no interest in keeping QF as it is now and I think they're prepared to bankrupt it and then for the assets to be bought by Jetstar, only to be re-launched as the "New" Qantas.

Then they'll have their B-Scale pilots.

I'm on the 73.

 

[Pull To Guns]

This kinda sums it up.

http://youtu.be/68f_JdPmvlM

EY and EK are also licking their chops over this windfall.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Shameful what is happening to such an Iconic brand

 

[ackattacker]

This guy sounds like the Frank Lorenzo of the southern hemisphere.

He's betting either that the government orders a total, permanent end to all union actions (a big union-busting win for him) OR he simply bankrupts the company, fires everybody, moves everything off-shore, writes himself a big fat check and fires up a cuban cigar.

Win-win.

 

[Full of LUV]

A good summation.

One of the cornerstones of the Qantas CEOs plan is to move the labor out of Australia. He can then subvert labor laws by employing pilots to operate Qantas aircraft from a country with different, little, or no labor law and without a contract or a union. Or, employ them under a separate contract in another country. All under the Qantas company umbrella.

You used the example of 'Ted' and United to illustrate situation. In this case it would be 'Ted' based in Mexico and employing a mix of Americans and foreign nationals all under a different contract. Whilst being owned by United.

'The Irish midget' needs to be deported.

You mean like the United and Air Lingus joint venture that uses other pilots to fly their metal for less cost?

 

[Jetjockey]

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

Can't this be argued free-market capitalism? Isn't this what "conservatives" argue up and down? An unregulated, free market? It's good for the business, who care what it does to employees.

Sadly, this is becoming the global model.

 

[Flopgut]

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

Can't this be argued free-market capitalism? Isn't this what "conservatives" argue up and down? An unregulated, free market? It's good for the business, who care what it does to employees.

Sadly, this is becoming the global model.

I'm not afraid of a global free market, and no pilot should be. But it's not a free market.

 

[Poahi]

Can someone clear up what history brought about this situation?

It looks like QF commanded a preemptive shutdown to avoid a death by a thousand pokes.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Qantas ordered to resume flights after tribunal ruling

An independent tribunal in Australia has ordered a permanent end to the industrial dispute that has grounded all Qantas flights.
Fair Work Australia issued its ruling after hearing evidence from the airline, unions and government at an emergency session in Melbourne.
Qantas had wanted the ruling and said it could resume flights within hours, but it has given no details as yet.
Nearly 70,000 people have been affected by flight cancellations in 22 nations.
Correspondents say the ruling is likely to be seen as a victory for Qantas, which has been seeking to end long-running disputes with three unions, and for the government, which wanted the damaging stand-off resolved quickly.
The row came to a head in August after the airline announced plans for restructuring and moving some operations to Asia.
Permanent end
The Fair Work Australia ruling said: "We have decided to terminate protected industrial action in relation to each of the proposed enterprise agreements immediately."
Qantas dispute

• August 2011: Qantas announces restructuring and outsourcing plan to combat annual losses in international operation of about A$200m
• Unions begin series of strikes, pressing for more job security
• Qantas says 447 flights cancelled and 68,000 passengers affected, at cost of A$68m
• 29 October: Qantas grounds entire domestic and international fleet - 108 planes at 22 airports
• The ruling requires the unions to return to the negotiating table and come to an agreement within 21 days or face binding arbitration.

Fair Work Australia said its ruling had taken into account its concern for the vulnerability of the tourism industry.
Australia's government welcomed the decision, with Assistant Treasurer Bill Shorten saying: "We are pleased that after 24 hours of turmoil, commonsense has been restored."
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce had warned it would only resume operations if the tribunal ordered a permanent end, rather than merely a suspension, of industrial action.
The unions had wanted a suspension for up to 120 days to allow talks.
Secretary of the ACTU union Jeff Lawrence said the ruling had made it clear that union action was not causing harm to the economy and that it was Qantas's actions that had brought the tribunal's intervention.
He said the ruling showed Qantas's decision to lockout its workers and ground aircraft was a disproportionate response to the unions' negotiating position.
The airline announced its decision to ground all flights on Saturday, saying it was a necessary reaction to industrial action that was costing A$15m ($16m) a week.
Australia's Prime Minister Julia Gillard had earlier said the dispute between the airline and unions needed to be halted.
A government lawyer said the shutdown was costing the Australian economy "tens of millions" of dollars every hour.
Job losses
A Qantas statement on Saturday said all employees involved in industrial action would be locked out from Monday evening and flights grounded from 0600 GMT on Saturday.
The announcement came after months of wrangling between the airline's management and unions.
Relations started deteriorating in August after the airline announced plans for restructuring and moving some operations to Asia.
Qantas has a 65% share of the domestic Australian market, but has been making heavy losses on its international flights.
The restructuring is expected to mean the loss of 1,000 jobs from its 35,000-strong workforce.

 

[ackattacker]

Can someone clear up what history brought about this situation?

It looks like QF commanded a preemptive shutdown to avoid a death by a thousand pokes.

Looks to me like QF commanded a shutdown in order to force the government to prohibit the (legal) job actions which the various unions were undertaking, thus depriving the unions of their bargaining leverage and effectively neutering them, thus allowing QF management to do whatever they want. New page in the union-busting playbook.

Keep in mind most of the "job actions" they are talking about are such draconian measures as wearing red ties and not volunteering to work overtime.

 

[scoreboardII]

unions can't have it both ways, "we want to strike just the few flights we want to strike", the airline "fine, I'll shut the whole thing down".

Both sides doing the same thing.

 

[Poahi]

Keep in mind most of the "job actions" they are talking about are such draconian measures as wearing red ties and not volunteering to work overtime.

They were ordered to stop strikes. If QF used this shutdown as a tactic, it apparently worked.

 

[tzskipper]

Sorry, no link.. Pasted from a blog site..

If true, wow....

Senator XENOPHON (South Australia) (19:37): I rise to speak tonight on an issue that is close to the hearts of many Australians, and that is the future of our national carrier, Qantas. At 90, Qantas is the world's oldest continuously running airline. It is an iconic Australian company. Its story is woven into the story of Australia and Australians have long taken pride in the service and safety standards provided by our national carrier. Who didn't feel a little proud when Dustin Hoffman uttered the immortal line in Rain Man, 'Qantas never crashed'?

While it is true that Qantas never crashes, the sad reality is that Qantas is being deliberately trashed by management in the pursuit of short-term profits and at the expense of its workers and passengers. For a long time, Qantas management has been pushing the line that Qantas international is losing money and that Jetstar is profitable. Tonight, it is imperative to expose those claims for the misinformation they are. The reality is that Qantas has long been used to subsidise Jetstar in order to make Jetstar look profitable and Qantas look like a burden. In a moment, I will provide detailed allegations of cost-shifting that I have sourced from within the Qantas Group, and when you know the facts you quickly see a pattern. When there is a cost to be paid, Qantas pays it, and when there is a profit to be made, Jetstar makes it.

But first we need to ask ourselves: why? Why would management want Qantas to look unprofitable? Why would they want to hide the cost of a competing brand within their group, namely Jetstar, in amongst the costs faced by Qantas?

To understand that, you need to go back to the days when Qantas was being privatised. When Qantas was privatised the Qantas Sale Act 1992 imposed a number of conditions, which in turn created a number of problems for any management group that wanted to flog off parts of the business. Basically, Qantas has to maintain its principal place of operations here in Australia, but that does not stop management selling any subsidiaries, which brings us to Jetstar.

Qantas has systematically built up the low-cost carrier at the expense of the parent company. I have been provided with a significant number of examples where costs which should have been billed back to Jetstar have in fact been paid for by Qantas. These are practices that I believe Qantas and Jetstar management need to explain. For example, when Jetstar took over the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore route, replacing Qantas flights, a deal was struck that required Qantas to provide Jetstar with $6 million a year in revenue. Why? Why would one part of the business give up a profitable route like that and then be asked to pay for the privilege? Then there are other subsidies when it comes to freight. On every sector Jetstar operates an A330, Qantas pays $6,200 to $6,400 for freight space regardless of actual uplift. When you do the calculations, this turns out to be a small fortune. Based on 82 departures a week, that is nearly half-a-million dollars a week or $25½ million a year.

Then there are the arrangements within the airport gates. In Melbourne, for example, my information from inside the Qantas group is that Jetstar does not pay for any gates, but instead Qantas domestic is charged for the gates. My question for Qantas management is simple: are these arrangements replicated right around Australia and why is Qantas paying Jetstar's bills? Why does Qantas lease five check-in counters at Sydney Terminal 2, only to let Jetstar use one for free? It has been reported to me that there are other areas where Jetstar's costs magically become Qantas's costs. For example, Jetstar does not have a treasury department and has only one person in government affairs. I am told Qantas's legal department also does free work for Jetstar.

Then there is the area of disruption handling where flights are cancelled and people need to be rebooked. Here, insiders tell me, Qantas handles all rebookings and the traffic is all one way. It is extremely rare for a Qantas passenger to be rebooked on a Jetstar flight, but Jetstar passengers are regularly rebooked onto Qantas flights. I am informed that Jetstar never pays Qantas for the cost of those rebooked passengers and yet Jetstar gets to keep the revenue from the original bookings. This, I am told, is worth millions of dollars every year. So Jetstar gets the profit while Qantas bears the costs of carriage. It has also been reported to me that when Qantas provides an aircraft to Jetstar to cover an unserviceable plane, Jetstar does not pay for the use of this plane.

Yet another example relates to the Qantas Club. Jetstar passengers can and do use the Qantas Club but Jetstar does not pay for the cost of any of this. So is Qantas really losing money? Or is it profitable but simply losing money on paper because it is carrying so many costs incurred by Jetstar? We have been told by Qantas management that the changes that will effectively gut Qantas are necessary because Qantas international is losing money but, given the inside information I have just detailed, I would argue those claims need to be reassessed.

Indeed, given these extensive allegations of hidden costs, it would be foolish to take management's word that Qantas international is losing money. So why would Qantas want to make it look like Qantas international is losing money? Remember the failed 2007 private equity bid by the Allco Finance Group. It was rejected by shareholders, and thank goodness it was, for I am told that what we are seeing now is effectively a strategy of private equity sell-off by stealth.

Here is how it works. You have to keep Qantas flying to avoid breaching the Qantas Sale Act but that does not stop you from moving assets out of Qantas and putting them into an airline that you own but that is not controlled by the Qantas Sale Act. Then you work the figures to make it appear as though the international arm of Qantas is losing money. You use this to justify the slashing of jobs, maintenance standards and employment of foreign crews and, ultimately, the creation of an entirely new airlines to be based in Asia and which will not be called Qantas. The end result? Technically Qantas would still exist but it would end up a shell of its former self and the Qantas Group would end up with all these subsidiaries it can base overseas using poorly paid foreign crews with engineering and safety standards that do not match Australian standards. In time, if the Qantas Group wants to make a buck, they can flog these subsidiaries off for a tidy profit. Qantas management could pay the National Boys Choir and the Australian Girls Choir to run to the desert and sing about still calling Australia home, but people would not buy it. It is not just about feeling good about our national carrier—in times of trouble our national carrier plays a key strategic role. In an international emergency, in a time of war, a national carrier is required to freight resources and people around the country and around the world. Qantas also operates Qantas Defence Services, which conducts work for the RAAF. If Qantas is allowed to wither, who will meet these strategic needs?

I pay tribute to the 35,000 employees of the Qantas Group. At the forefront of the fight against the strategy of Qantas management have been the Qantas pilots, to whom millions of Australians have literally entrusted their lives. The Australian and International Pilots Association sees Qantas management strategy as a race to the bottom when it comes to service and safety. On 8 November last year, QF32 experienced a serious malfunction with the explosion of an engine on an A380 aircraft. In the wrong hands, that plane could have crashed. But it did not, in large part because the Qantas flight crew had been trained to exemplary world-class standards and knew how to cope with such a terrifying reality. I am deeply concerned that what is being pursued may well cause training levels to fall and that as a result safety standards in the Qantas Group may fall as well. AIPA pilots and the licensed aircraft engineers are not fighting for themselves; they are fighting for the Australian public. That is why I am deeply concerned about any action Qantas management may be considering taking against pilots who speak out in the public interest.

A lot of claims have been made about the financial state of Qantas international but given the information I have presented tonight, which has come from within the Qantas Group, I believe these claims by management are crying out for further serious forensic investigation. Qantas should not be allowed to face death by a thousand cuts—job cuts, route cuts, quality cuts, engineering cuts, wage cuts. None of this is acceptable and it must all be resisted for the sake of the pilots, the crews, the passengers and ultimately the future of our national carrier.

 

[mesaserf]

You boys and girls are very welcome..

I pay into ALPA's PAC to ensure that the cabotage laws in the US remain in effect.

Otherwise this same scenario will play out here in the USA.