Qantas grounds entire fleet!

[Flopgut]

There can be no 'struck-work' when there is no labor group that isn't on strike.

END OF STORY!

First off: Would you be willing to fly anything that looked like it infringed on this mess?! That's the fundamental question.

The guy has locked out the entire airline. Lockout is to Management as Strike is to Union. It's going to end up a strike.

They start interviewing and hiring intended replacements, you think that's going to be ok?

End of story? Hardly!

 

[General Lee]

Looks like the Government may get involved with a Fair Works tribunal to try to resolve it, and it may be flying again by Monday. Sounds like Clinton and Bush forcing the hand of labor, but they also may keep labor around and not let the airline fail. Regardless, it will help Virgin Australia, and Delta too.

And, I really don't think SWA will buy them, since they can't make a profit in the most profitable quarter of the year. Sure seems like those guys are having a terrible year, with the culture problems too.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You can't throw the phrase "struck work" around when talking about this.

Firstly it's only the QF long haul pilots who are trying to negotiate a new CBA, not the domestic pilots. They are on a completely different contract. Any extra flights that Virgin is doing is only domestic and only to clear the backlog of pax that have been stranded.

Secondly, the QF long haul pilots are not on strike.

Thirdly, the QF pilots are represented by AIPA. The Virgin pilots are represented by both the AFAP and VIPA. And even then union membership is not compulsory in Australia.

Are you talking about Qantas vs Jetstar? Qantas has 737s that fly domestic flights, and bigger planes that go INTL. Qantas also owns Jetstar, which is a LCC (with A320/321s and A330s), and they are unaffected. Yes, Qantas does have domestic flying, with 737-400s, 737-800s, and 767/A330s.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

You can't throw the phrase "struck work" around when talking about this.

Firstly it's only the QF long haul pilots who are trying to negotiate a new CBA, not the domestic pilots. They are on a completely different contract. Any extra flights that Virgin is doing is only domestic and only to clear the backlog of pax that have been stranded.

Secondly, the QF long haul pilots are not on strike.

Thirdly, the QF pilots are represented by AIPA. The Virgin pilots are represented by both the AFAP and VIPA. And even then union membership is not compulsory in Australia.

An impasse is an impasse. The exact term is just semantics.

Something like this happens, I don't think its a good idea to immediately start rationalizing that its ok without much consternation.

*edit* What's happened here, is mgt has gone on strike...

 

[General Lee]

An impasse is an impasse. The exact term is just semantics.

Something like this happens, I don't think its a good idea to immediately start rationalizing that its ok without much consternation.

*edit* What's happened here, is mgt has gone on strike...

Very correct. But, they will probably still get their "retention bonuses." It's called Wealthfare.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Kenny]

Are you talking about Qantas vs Jetstar? Qantas has 737s that fly domestic flights, and bigger planes that go INTL. Qantas also owns Jetstar, which is a LCC (with A320/321s and A330s), and they are unaffected. Yes, Qantas does have domestic flying, with 737-400s, 737-800s, and 767/A330s.


Bye Bye---General Lee

.


GL,

With the greatest of respect, I don't think you're aware of how the QF group and their pilots fit together.

QF didn't do any domestic flying until after the pilots' strike of '89, they only flew internationally. When QF bought Australian Airlines, they acquired a domestic network. Hence, they essentially have 2 pilot groups, international and domestic pilots and they are treated as separate groups on very different CBA's. It is the QF international pilots that are trying to negotiate a new CBA and whose work action to this point has simply consisted of wearing red ties and making PA's about keeping QF Australian. The domestics pilots are not taking part in any work action, even though they are also represented by AIPA and are Qantas pilots.

What this is about is "Job security". At its very simplest, imagine that when UAL formed TED, they used UAL planes but different pilots. Not UAL pilots but pilots on a different seniority list, paid less than the UAL guys to fly the same aircraft and whose work rules were far lower. Then imagine that TED grew and started taking over UAL domestic and international routes. This is what has been happening with QF and Jetstar. Jetstar has effectively been eating QF, from the inside out, for the past few years.

Let's just hope there isn't another company overseas that's willing to to bring their aircraft and pilots en-masse and fly the Qantas routes, like America West did in '89.

 

[dicko]

.


GL,

With the greatest of respect, I don't think you're aware of how the QF group and their pilots fit together.

QF didn't do any domestic flying until after the pilots' strike of '89, they only flew internationally. When QF bought Australian Airlines, they acquired a domestic network. Hence, they essentially have 2 pilot groups, international and domestic pilots and they are treated as separate groups on very different CBA's. It is the QF international pilots that are trying to negotiate a new CBA and whose work action to this point has simply consisted of wearing red ties and making PA's about keeping QF Australian. The domestics pilots are not taking part in any work action, even though they are also represented by AIPA and are Qantas pilots.

What this is about is "Job security". At its very simplest, imagine that when UAL formed TED, they used UAL planes but different pilots. Not UAL pilots but pilots on a different seniority list, paid less than the UAL guys to fly the same aircraft and whose work rules were far lower. Then imagine that TED grew and started taking over UAL domestic and international routes. This is what has been happening with QF and Jetstar. Jetstar has effectively been eating QF, from the inside out, for the past few years.

Let's just hope there isn't another company overseas that's willing to to bring their aircraft and pilots en-masse and fly the Qantas routes, like America West did in '89.

A good summation.

One of the cornerstones of the Qantas CEOs plan is to move the labor out of Australia. He can then subvert labor laws by employing pilots to operate Qantas aircraft from a country with different, little, or no labor law and without a contract or a union. Or, employ them under a separate contract in another country. All under the Qantas company umbrella.

You used the example of 'Ted' and United to illustrate situation. In this case it would be 'Ted' based in Mexico and employing a mix of Americans and foreign nationals all under a different contract. Whilst being owned by United.

'The Irish midget' needs to be deported.

 

[Freebrd]

I would think ordinarily management types are beholden to *stockholders* who won't look kindly on intentionally running a company into the ground in order to spite the workers.

happens with just about every airline contract every time, standard operating procedure by management, stockholders buy into management's reasoning, you know, bust those unions!

 

[wmuflyguy]

Maybe I'm slow but I don't get it. Isn't this the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face? Some sort of reverse strike? I would think ordinarily management types are beholden to *stockholders* who won't look kindly on intentionally running a company into the ground in order to spite the workers.

He is locking them out and most likely betting that the government will intervene order the company to open and the TWU to stop job actions. Thus killing the job action by the TWU and keeping the current contracts in place.

 

[J.Otto]

He is locking them out and most likely betting that the government will intervene order the company to open and the TWU to stop job actions. Thus killing the job action by the TWU and keeping the current contracts in place.

This is what most likely will happen.