Pvt Lynch - Shut up or contradict

[Timebuilder]

"half as much wood being sported".

Now that's funny!!!

The first two pictures look like the NYU freshman class!! (most of the girls at NYU come from Long Island, and are...oh, nevermind..)

 

[Snakum]

Interesting discussion about jammed M-16s and how they got in the mess to begin with.

About M16s ... I know they had a bad rep for a time after introduction in the 60s/70s, but in five years I never had a problem with the old-style or the A2 (sweeeeeet) as long as the mag spring was ok (they wear out and won't feed properly). And there's nothing you can poke down the spout to clear a jam. I've had blank and live jams and they'll clear immediately with the standard routine (SPORTS), IMHO.

About Lynch's unit .... they got into trouble the same way Infantry many units get into trouble. An officer got them lost and then they weren't comfortable/good enough with basic tactics to hold off the indians long enough for the cavalry to get there.

Unlike the Marine Corps, the Army doesn't emphasize basic riflemanship and squad drills enough, even in Mechanized Infantry units for Christ's sake. So you can imagine what a joke it is to expect a company of wrenches to fight off the bad guys. I was a grunt for five years, but I was a mech grunt for most of that time and didn't realize how inadequate my training really was, until a few guys with AK47s and a bad attitude tried to shoot my ass off in Central America. I admit it ... I almost peed my pants the first time it happened. I can appreciate the need for trial by fire, but you'd think five years of training would be enough to INGRAIN the things we were supposed to be there to teach others.

I hope they powers that be will get their $hit together one day and learn the lessons we've been failing to heed since Vietnam.
If you joined the US Army, you should expect to get shot at ... PERIOD. I don't care if your a chute rigger or a generator mechanic. You're supposed to be fighter. So shame on the leaders who do not provide the proper training to be able to do so effectively.

Minh

 

[Socalplt]

I spent 3 1/2 of my 4 years in the Army with the 82nd Airborne Division (during the 80's). At most we shot live ammo twice a year. This was only at the range with at most 60 rounds for the day. Hardly enough to be proficient in my opinion. As for a coordinated live fire exercise -- never saw one! Since I was part of the Rapid Deployment Force that was suppose to parachute in and do some fighting I always figured we'd get to shoot more.

 

[wingnutt]

interesting...i was with the 101st for 5 years. and although we were only "supposed" to qualify twice a year, our combat engineer company thought it best to reserve a squads worth of slots at the range every time someone came up for qualifying. so if someone in your squad had to go qualify to make the army happy, our entire squad went to practice at the same time.

i can honestly say we had enough range qualifications and basic rifle skills than i ever thought wed need. perhaps this had something to do with the 8 hour "be anywhere in the world" thing we had going at the time

 

[Freight Dog]

Hey hows this for an example of a f***ked up Army policy?


My g/f is an Army flight surgeon by the rank of captain. She's been selected for major, and she hasn't even completed Army Officer Basic Course. She got a waiver for it since she was prior enlisted in the Air Force. She's attached to an aviation unit, and she is getting deployed to Iraq in the next rotation....

Not even OCS!!! Here's the butter bar while you're an intern for a year in a hospital, and when you're done, we're gonna make you a captain. Military training??? Naaaw.. you don't need any, but we're sure to deploy you. WTFO?

 

[wingnutt]

well, short of doubting that one could get selected to the rank of major without ever completing OCS...

She got a waiver for it...

...theres your answer right there. textbook definition means to not insist, or to forego a claim, priveledge, right or rule. lotsa stuff gets waivered when crossing military branches...happens all the time

 

[Timebuilder]

When doctors and nurses were drafted, they became officers very quickly. I can't say they bypassed all typical officer training, but when a need is there for medical people, I'm sure they waive a whole bunch of requirements.

This probably because they do work that is structured by the job, and not by military principles. Think of Hawkeye Pierce.

 

[WrightAvia]

Interesting insight into Lynch/Shoshana

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/nov03/184040.asp

Jessica Lynch is everywhere these days, but where's Shoshana Johnson?

Comparing the cases of these two female American prisoners of war makes some folks defensive and others blazing mad, for obvious reasons.

But that doesn't change the facts.

For many, what Lynch and Johnson represent is the troubling affirmation that, even in times of war, some Americans are deemed more worthy than others.

Let's review:

Both Pfc. Lynch and Spc. Johnson belonged to the same 507th Maintenance Company when they were captured by Iraqi troops.

Both were seriously injured during their ordeal.

Unlike Lynch, who was rendered unconscious and didn't fire a shot, Johnson fought with her captors.

Unlike Johnson, Lynch went on to become a big media star with a new TV movie that just aired and a book that hit the stores today, all kicked off by a high-profile interview with Diane Sawyer.

Johnson had her brief cup of coffee with fame - I saw her on Leno once - but has pretty much disappeared since, although a messy dispute over her disability pay might return her to the headlines.

Her family has asked Jesse Jackson for help in pressuring the Army to reconsider a decision to give Johnson - who was shot in both ankles in Iraq - just 30% of her disability pay, while Lynch received 80%.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the disparity is due to different categories of disability decided by a military physical evaluation board.

Lynch was put on temporary disability, meaning she can stay in the Army for five years while being re-evaluated, while Johnson was given permanent disability due to the extent of her injuries.

Johnson plans to appeal the decision. This is about where the anger kicks in.

Many African-Americans - particularly black women - were already mad that the blond, blue-eyed Lynch became the poster girl for the Iraq war, based on so-called acts of heroism that never happened.

They are bound to be even madder upon learning about the difference in disability payments for the two women.

Other people get angry whenever someone even suggests Lynch was designated for stardom, not because of any actual accomplishments, but because of her so-called All-American looks and white skin.

In fact, the much-repeated description of Lynch's look is part of the problem; if blond and blue-eyed are the criteria for being "All-American," what about all the Americans in Iraq who don't possess any of that?

There's little to be gained by arguing whether Lynch would be a star if she were black, or if Johnson's fame would have lasted longer if she were white.

What's interesting is placing both cases side by side to see what actually happened.

When fair-housing groups want to test for discrimination, they send out perfectly matched pairs of potential home-buyers - one white couple, one black couple - to judge if the treatment is different.

This type of "testing" is legitimate and very instructive. And, just as with Lynch and Johnson, pretty hard to explain away.

Frankly, it's depressing to realize the men and women fighting this war overseas in a hostile land are simply not considered equal when they return to the United States.

It just serves to remind some people, once again, that fighting in the war in Iraq doesn't necessarily win the war for respect still being fought back home.

 

[Freight Dog]

well, short of doubting that one could get selected to the rank of major without ever completing OCS...

Doctors are a whole another animal. If they don't complete residency, they are limited to the rank of major. But that's it...

Funny how it works...

 

[flywithastick]

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/nov03/184040.asp

Excellent article, Wright. I remember the other woman now. This hype about the blonde haired, blue eyed soldier made me uncomfortable from the first minute the mass media started calling her "Jessica" and not Private Lynch.

What bigoted hypocrites (mass media)!!

 

[WrightAvia]

Now Larry Flint is saying he's gotten ahold of photos of Lynch topless, hanging out with her soldier buddies before heading off to war.

I don't know why this would be such a big deal. You see almost all of that on television, on any given day. Heck, if we had to suffer through seeing that guys butt on the original NYPD Blue show, least they could do is get Jessica to show her boobs on TV.

 

[flywithastick]

, least they could do is get Jessica to show her boobs on TV.

no doubt she's attractive, but the whole thing is getting very wierd.

 

[Snakum]

no doubt she's attractive

Dude ... aviation cute, maybe.

Minh

 

[flywithastick]

Dude ... aviation cute, maybe.

Minh

depends on the picture, no of beers, etc. I saw one the other day that looked pretty good sober.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/04/01/image547268x.jpg

One today that was kind of so so...

 

[flywithastick]

I watched Pvt Lynch on ABC last night and came to some different conclusions that I had before.

1. She seemed totally honest - admitted to being scared as heck and not firing her weapon once. I was a little disappointed in how little she seemed to know about cleaning the gun, clearing jams, etc. though.

2. I didn't realize before how they got ambushed out in the sand. Apparently they turned into the city of Nazareah (sp?), an urban area.

3. Lynch contradicted Sawyer's attempts to knock the military on going into the hospital very well armed and preparred. Lynch matter of factly stated that they couldn't have known who or what awaited them in the hospital, despite Sawyers thinly veiled attempt to portray the mission as a big show.

4. Apparently the story of her heroism - "shooting until the end" - was created by a Northeastern newpaper reporter. Others took the story and ran with it. The military commanders, not knowing any different at the time, and not wanting to discredit Lynch, said nothing and allowed the story to stand uncontested. It seemed understandable.

5. Lynch credited the special forces personnel who came after her as her heros/the real heros.

In my mind, I see her action as understandable and reasonable. She didn't do anything outstanding. Actually, she just stayed low until the humvee hit another truck.

The military didn't correct the heroism story for seemingly legitimate reasons.

The media, though, still portrays themselves as only the reporters of this fascination with Lynch. When in reality, it is they who keep the story propped up and the others out of the lime light. They are the ones twisting the situation.

 

[Snakum]

The media, though, still portrays themselves as only the reporters of this fascination with Lynch. When in reality, it is they who keep the story propped up and the others out of the lime light. They are the ones twisting the situation.

Amen!

We hear nothing about the brave grunts who are taking fire every single day while patrolling, guarding bridges and clearing houses. These guys are probably performing acts of supreme heroism under fire daily, but all we get is this stupid c@nt who rode bravely into an auto accident and never even got off a shot.

It's a sorry phuk'n world!



Minh