Pvt. Checkride PIC

[wickedpilot]

Okay, I've heard two sides to the same story and I'm looking for some appropriate references:

Scenario: A student pilot taking his/her private checkride.
Can he/she log the checkride flight as P.I.C. or does he/she wait until the next flight?

Same question goes for the multi-engine checkride?

 

[Mmmmmm Burritos]

Yes to both. 61.47(b)

 

[350DRIVER]

They will/should log the checkride as PIC.

3 5 0

 

[garf12]

Do I log solo time as PIC? I am still a student pilot. I was under the impression that I do, but somone at the FBO told me I cant? Seemed kinda wacky to me.

 

[Lead Sled]

You are the PIC and your examiner is your first legal passenger.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

garf12, if you are solo, who is PIC if you aren't?

 

[garf12]

garf12, if you are solo, who is PIC if you aren't?

thats what I was wondering, I dunno what the fool was thinking!

 

[OrcasC180]

You will want to keep track of your solo time post PPL checkride to use to meet the aeronautical experience requirements for the Commercial Certificate. It would be both PIC and Solo.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Do I log solo time as PIC? I am still a student pilot. I was under the impression that I do, but somone at the FBO told me I cant?

Yup. "Someone at the FBO" obviously hasn't looked at the rules for 8 years. They changed in 1997 to specifically say

==============================

A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time ... when the student pilot ... Is the sole occupant of the aircraft ... Has a current solo flight endorsement ... and ... Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.

==============================

 

[garf12]

Allright well I will go change that. I logged my first IMC time today, with my CFI in the plane of course. It was alot of fun, we did my first insturment approach in rain with 1/4 mile visiblity.

 

[philo beddoe]

GARF12;

The feds just called. You have just admitted violating approach minimums in a public forum. You may not retract your confession. Please immediately shred your certificates and those of your CFI.

 

[OrcasC180]

GARF12;

The feds just called. You have just admitted violating approach minimums in a public forum. You may not retract your confession. Please immediately shred your certificates and those of your CFI.

Hey, he didn't say he landed. Maybe he went in for a legal Part-91 "looksee" and went missed.

-DJ

P.S. Now is when everyone chimes in that his instructor shouldn't have had him shoot his first approach when the WX was below minimums.

 

[midlifeflyer]

P.S. Now is when everyone chimes in that his instructor shouldn't have had him shoot his first approach when the WX was below minimums.

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing more of the story of the reasons behind flying an instrument approach in low IFR with a =student pilot=.

 

[350DRIVER]

P.S. Now is when everyone chimes in that his instructor shouldn't have had him shoot his first approach when the WX was below minimums.

Actually, it would be completely illegal to shoot any instrument approach procedure knowing that the wx was below the minimums listed on the IAP prior to beginning the approach. I have never came across a CFI that launched into low imc while the airport was below minimums.... This would be one of the dumbest things that anyone could do, not to mention completely unsafe and illegal. The FAR's make this clear as day.

Actually, I'd be interested in hearing more of the story of the reasons behind flying an instrument approach in low IFR with a =student pilot=.

The student pilot is required to have a total of 3 hours of instrument training prior to being able to take the private pilot checkride so why not give them some "actual" experience versus "simulated"? This is absolutely legal as long as you are smart about it and don't get into shooting approaches down to minimums which would be taking this "flexibility" to the extreme...


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[OrcasC180]

Legal and safe are two different things

Actually, it would be completely illegal to shoot any instrument approach procedure knowing that the wx was below the minimums listed on the IAP prior to beginning the approach. I have never came across a CFI that launched into low imc while the airport was below minimums.... This would be one of the dumbest things that anyone could do, not to mention completely unsafe and illegal. The FAR's make this clear as day.
3 5 0

I agree that shooting an approach when the weather is below the published minimums is dumb and unsafe, but not that it is illegal for Part 91 operations. 91.175(c)(2) only says that you can't descend below the appropriate DH or MDA if the flight visibility is below minimums, not that you can't shoot the approach. Unless I'm missing another regulation in Part 91 that says you can't shoot the approach to the DH or MDA if you know the weather is below mins, it would be legal.

-DJ

 

[midlifeflyer]

Actually, it would be completely illegal to shoot any instrument approach procedure knowing that the wx was below the minimums listed on the IAP prior to beginning the approach. ... The FAR's make this clear as day.

Since Orcas brought tit up, I won't ask which regulation makes it clear as day.

The student pilot is required to have a total of 3 hours of instrument training prior to being able to take the private pilot checkride so why not give them some "actual" experience versus "simulated"? This is absolutely legal

...which is =exactly= why I'd be interested in hearing more about it.

 

[transpac]

Shooting an approach when the wx is below minima is dumb and unsafe?? Why?
I've done dozens of approaches in such conditions during training flights/checkrides. In fact, if there's an airport below minima in the general area, that's usually my first choice for instrument approach training. I'm missing the rationale as to why it's dumb and/or unsafe.

 

[OrcasC180]

Shooting an approach when the wx is below minima is dumb and unsafe?? Why?

I had to think about this for a bit. I think it comes down to perspective and what you're trying to accomplish. I'm coming from a background of owning my own single-engine plane and using it for personal transportation for the last several years for myself and my family. These are usually short hops from the island I live on down to the Seattle area. If the weather is below minimums where I'm trying to go, chances are I'm not going to depart anyway. If the weather drops while enroute (30-40 minutes in most cases), I'm already going to be looking for an alternative rather than shooting an approach I have every expectation will end in a missed approach. If the WX is just above minimums, I do shoot the approach with the expectation in my mind that I will not see the runway and will go missed. I work very hard to stay proficient enough to be comfortable shooting approaches to minimum.

I understand your point about training and need to remember that this is a training forum. I think there is a lot of value to showing an instrument student what it is like to fly missed approaches in actual conditions. My instrument instructor never had that opportunity (though we did break out at minimums a couple of times) and the first time I had to go missed approach for real was a bit of an adreneline rush.

I'm in the process of resuming my commercial training with the goal of becoming a part-time flight instructor. Obviously I will need to change my perspective some from where I am now.

-DJ

 

[nosehair]

Training - this is Training!!

You Airline and Corporate types should probably stay away from this page, cause it is Training. And I take it that we mean Part 61/91 training, not 121,125, or 135 training. We do IFR flights to airports where the fog is still thick as pea soup so the student can get some actual missed approach practice.
We ask for holding. We ask to do full approaches. We fly airways instead of radar vectors direct. We don't do things the way the rest of the world does it.
So many of the responses to so many comments on this page are related to the actual practical side of flying. We're Training!!
I like the comments from non-instructor types who don't see the value of a particular move, but don't call them illegal unless you are working in a daily Part 61/91 environment. We ain't that familiar with 121 either, so it is an even draw. OK?

 

[mizzouguy]

It is legal but dumb you are right. My problem with this is it is absolutley waisting his money because it is not good training. The student knows nothing about instrument approach procedures or the IFR environment so who is flying the airplane? The student pilot with 3 or less hours of instrument time? I think not. Id find a new CFI.