Purchasing a 210? Opinions?

[AlbieF15]

I've flown a 210D from my local aero club in the past and found it to be a great, fast, family hauling beast. Alas...the standard renter problems of availablity, etc really soured me on renting any more from them...last time was 2001 or so.

Now the question...any war stories or pros/cons on owning one? If going for a 64 (gotta have 6 seats) through 69 model, suggestions or warnings? 64-66 had struts...how much do they really cost in speed? What is typical fuel burn? How much is a good overhaul for a Cont. 285 (IO 520)?

What else has 6 seats (or 5....) for less than 100k that might do? Old Cherokee 6s are nice but burn about same gas for a much slower speed. Twin Comanches are faster, but how much more expensive to overhaul 2 Lcy 160s (IO360s) and pay the insurance difference. Any twinkie owners want to weight in?....I'm listening!

And yeah...I know that if it flies, floats, or f...s its cheaper to rent, but my GA jones is getting restless. I'm almost 40 and I keep asking myself "if not now, when?" I've also been told renting airplanes is like going to a prostitute.....the goods are worn out, the nice ones are hard to find on a Saturday, and someone is always looking at a watch!" I'm ready to quit stop this whoring around IF I can do it without putting the family in the poor house on the way.

Also...any GA savy types know the rules on airplanes for business expenses and where to get info on same?

Thanks in advance...standing by for your inputs.

 

[Kingairrick]

The old B models have struts, a 2 blade prop and only 260 Horse Power. You'll lose about 20 knots of speed, and have a different electrical system (14 Volt) and different gear and flap systems.

I love (and hate) 210s after 2100 hours in them. If you can get a later model, I think it would make a great personal airplane. I had very few mechanical problems in those hours. If you are going to fly IFR, get a standby vac system (almost killed me) and standby electrical system (almost killed me.)
Try your post on the cargo board also. There are lots of flight express guys on this board that can give you more tips on 210s. They fly them 120 hours a month...

Good luck.

 

[FN FAL]

Albie, I rode shotgun with a guy in his 210 for his insurance company's requirements on some long trips from WI to the Show Low AZ airport.

I liked the plane. It seemed pretty fast and was Cessna easy to fly. I would look into problems with the fuel system, as I heard there were some issues there in regards to the guages reading full, when the plane's tanks weren't. Check into it, I'm sure there is more to it than that, but that's all I remember about the plane. One of our trips did almost end in a fuel exhaustion situation...but I'm not going to elaborate here.

His 210 was the one without the struts I believe and it had the spring steel gear as opposed to the tubular. After one of the trips we took, the plane went in for annual and he had some big repair costs concerning some landing gear cracks...possibly in the trunions.

I seriously recomend getting the consumer guide from these people concerning the 210...they will tell you about all the model changes and their importance. They have owner's comments, operation cost break downs and information concerning AD's and model quirks...money well spent. As someone that owned a complex plane and having read their report after we had some experience operating the plane, I can only say they were dead on with what they had in the report for our model.

here they are...

http://www.aviation-consumer.com/airplanereviews/

Also, if you are looking at saving some operating costs but still want a family station wagon for an airplane, have you considered the Cessna 205? It has a six place cabin, fixed gear and the little 206 style rear door for that aft seats.

It will haul what you need, plus it will cost less to operate. A little slower with the fixed gear and you won't be able to lease it back to a drop zone for jumpers with much success...but I would think there is a lot to be said for economy of operation. Those have IO-470's in em, but some have been upgraded. A friend of mine owned one and had great success with his ownership of the 205 Cessna.

 

[FN FAL]

Also Albie, I do have an A/P friend that owns a 206 with three bladed prop, I0-520. It has a recent paint job...(a couple of years ago, maybe 3-4).

It has nothing for radios or instruments and the interior is crap. In fact, he uses the plane for flying jumpers. It has a turning tendancy and needs to have it's rigging looked at to fly straight. He's divorced and owns a 182 as well. One minute the 206 is for sale, then the next minute it's not. He's not looking for high dollar, but I don't think he can afford to hang on to it, since it's sitting and not generating him income.

I doubt you are interested in this plane, but the last time he told me a price it was mid 60's.

The plane does have some history, but I have flown it for skydiving operations and some light cross country flying and felt safe in it.

It won't hurt my feelings if you're not interested, I just thought I would let you know about it.

 

[Vector4fun]

Albie,

One of our Supes just got out of a partnership on a Turbo Centurion. It was a money pit. They had lots of engine problems, an overhaul, more cylinder trouble within 20 hrs, and last she heard, they finally found out someone had used some improper parts in the fuel injection system. There's gear and prop ADs to worry about. The IO-520 will cost around $18 large to OH I hear.

I gotta second FN's reccomendation of the C205 though. It will carry 4 adults plus lots of bags, or 5 and a little baggage, with full fuel as I recall. An IO-470 that can be leaned out to near 10 gph at 10,500' or so. About 140 kts true. My Dad had one for years, and it's one of the planes I first flew. They only made them in '63 & '64 I believe, not real common. But no better combo of load hauling for the fuel burn I can think of in a GA aircraft. It burns less fuel when leaned out than a Skylane. (FI vs Carb) I spoke to a man on the radio last week that was going to put his up for sale, but asking price was very high as it's been completely re-built.

And I like the Cherokee 6. As you noted, it burns a lot of gas, but there's lots of lower hp O-540s that go 2000 hrs+ if taken care of.

An alternative (perhaps) is I think some Beech Sierras had a fifth (child's) seat. How much of a load do you need to haul??

 

[350DRIVER]

Look into a used V-35, A-36, F model. You should be able to find something in that 100K price range if you look older.

3 5 0

 

[Vik]

210 vs. Twinkie

I just bought a Twin Commanche. Yes, 2 engines = twice the trouble and twice the expense, but the Twin Commanche is as close to single engine operating cost as you will get to with a twin.

165kts TAS @ 16gph TOTAL.
The 1966-1972 model years have 6 seats although seats 5 and 6 are "kiddie seats" and most people take one or both out to reduce insurance and increase baggage.

Twin Commanche has plenty of support and parts are readily available.

Why a twin? I am planning on working for the airlines some day and so the hours will be more valuable. If it were just for personal use would I get a single? No .. b/c I believe in twins being safer as long as you are proficient and know what you are doing.

 

[tathepilot]

Try your post on the cargo board also. There are lots of flight express guys on this board that can give you more tips on 210s.
Good luck.

can I have the website you are referring to


thx

 

[Swass]

This one (the one you are reading), go to the main page and scroll down to cargo.

 

[FN FAL]

Albie,

One of our Supes just got out of a partnership on a Turbo Centurion. It was a money pit. They had lots of engine problems, an overhaul, more cylinder trouble within 20 hrs, and last she heard, they finally found out someone had used some improper parts in the fuel injection system. There's gear and prop ADs to worry about. The IO-520 will cost around $18 large to OH I hear.

I gotta second FN's reccomendation of the C205 though. It will carry 4 adults plus lots of bags, or 5 and a little baggage, with full fuel as I recall. An IO-470 that can be leaned out to near 10 gph at 10,500' or so. About 140 kts true. My Dad had one for years, and it's one of the planes I first flew. They only made them in '63 & '64 I believe, not real common. But no better combo of load hauling for the fuel burn I can think of in a GA aircraft. It burns less fuel when leaned out than a Skylane. (FI vs Carb) I spoke to a man on the radio last week that was going to put his up for sale, but asking price was very high as it's been completely re-built.

And I like the Cherokee 6. As you noted, it burns a lot of gas, but there's lots of lower hp O-540s that go 2000 hrs+ if taken care of.

An alternative (perhaps) is I think some Beech Sierras had a fifth (child's) seat. How much of a load do you need to haul??

I liked the 260 HP Cherokee Six. I have at least 150 hours in them. Seat six comfortably, even if one of your passengers is nicknamed "tiny" and with their luggage locker up front and behind the aft seats, you can balance your aircraft as you load it.

It's a prefered plane for me and the wife to rent, especially for 4 up flying on a weekend ski trip.

I have some time in the 300 HP Cherokee Six, this plane seemed so nose heavy it was a real joy to fly. You can burn all the fuel you want in this plane, with no increase at all in usefull load. The extra horsepower may be desired by some people that fly in terrain areas, but I saw no extra advantage to carrying around the extra weight of that engine.

As far as your friends that had the problems with the Turbo 210, sorry to hear about that. As a 1/3 owner of a 300 series cessna with TSIO-470's, I can honestly say that we never had any problems with the engines themselves as a result of turbocharging, but we did consume quite a few jugs. From what I hear and read, this is a twin cessna thing, because of tight cowlings. Read "Cessna, Wings for the World II", by William D. Thompson.

Barring any model history problems with turbocharged engines, I would figure your friends got an abused aircraft and now that they have their money invested in a rebuilt, hopefully the will enjoy good engine service.

Anyone looking to by a single engine Cessna, should check out this book as well. It's called "Cessna Wings For The World - The single-engine development story". It also was published by William D. Thompson, back in 1992.

Here is a link to that book available at Sportys or you could probably do a search on a place that sells used books and find it there...But I recommend reading this if you are buying an expensive to own and operate complex or high perf cessna single....

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=752&fromgoogle=yes

Thomson was an engineering test pilot for cessna during a 28 year time period that would cover all the time that cessna was developing their single engine product line. If anybody knew the dirt and the good on a Cessna single, Thompson would.

He also was the Manger of the Flight Test & Aerodynamics Division at Cessna.

Good luck on your search and purchase of whatever airplane you buy Albie.

 

[wingnutt]

Look into a used V-35, A-36, F model. You should be able to find something in that 100K price range if you look older.

3 5 0

as much as i love the (affectionately named) banana's and its faster speed, the ~400 pound deficiency in weight carrying capacity to the 210 makes a whole lotta difference..and it sounds like thats what hes worried about

 

[Citationkid]

How about a Lance?

http://aso.com/i.aso/AircraftView.jsp?aircraft_id=62206

http://aso.com/i.aso/AircraftView.jsp?aircraft_id=81493

 

[msw]

C-210 (vs. Cherokee 6)

I fly a couple of Cessna 210's at work (amongst other stuff), but I've owned and regularly flown (as my personal and family airplane) a 1979 Cherokee Six 300 since 1992.

You've got to decide if speed is more important to you than operating/maintenance costs and payload carrying capability. If it is speed, go with the 210. But do not expect to carry more than 4 adults in it; the only people that'll fit in the far back two seats in a C-210 are double amputees with no legs. (And then you'll still have nowhere to put their wheelchairs.) Also, overall, expect higher insurance and maintenance costs than a Cherokee Six.

I average 145 kts in my PA32-300 in the 6K - 8K altitude range, with about 15-16 GPH fuel burn at those altitudes. With full fuel, you can go about 5.5 hours, and stick 800 lbs of whatever you want inside.

I like flying them both, but I'm glad someone else is paying the maintenance bills for the 210's I fly at work.

 

[FracCapt]

Albie,

I owned a T210N several years ago. It was a great airplane. Fast(170+KTAS, as high as 190 in the right conditions), reliable, and will carry everything you can pack into it. I have only flow the straight 210 a couple times - can't tell you much about those, other than the fact that it's the same cabin. I don't recall if the weights are different or not. Of course, the speed will be lower in the airplanes you're considering....the N model had no struts, so less drag....but I wouldn't think it would make more than 10 knots difference. If you go with a Turbo model, you will need to really baby the engine...and make very slow, graduated power reductions on descent. PM me if you need any specific info I may be able to help with.

 

[Kingairrick]

The turbo only increases speed up high. If you don't fly above 10,000, don't waste monet (or money) on the turbo.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Hey,
I hav done prebuys, as a mechanic, on all the 100,200,300 series Cessna's. I have worked all the above A/C series as well as a pilot. I strongly encourage you to visit this web site:http://www.cessna.org/, extremely helpful no bias, just lots of info.
Good luck
PBR

 

[FN FAL]

Hey,
I hav done prebuys, as a mechanic, on all the 100,200,300 series Cessna's. I have worked all the above A/C series as well as a pilot. I strongly encourage you to visit this web site:http://www.cessna.org/, extremely helpful no bias, just lots of info.
Good luck
PBR

There ya go!

 

[Flyin Tony]

My Dad is looking for a T210 also. Anything thats 1970 or newer and has a Turbo. But looking at some mooneys, the Mooney 252, or Mooney M20K with the 305hp Rocket motor. They are alot smaller then the 210's and that might be a problem. But the mooneys are going to be fast. The 252 Cruise at 18,000 feet do true airspeeds of up to 250 MPH, and on only 14 GPH. Thats a big pluss.

 

[310]

go to www.planequest.com and compare operating cost per mile of 210 vs. 310. not that much difference plus faster speeds rack up less hours while running engines easier (63-65 percent) and moves the fuel away from the passengers.My 310C model has a useful load of 1500 lbs so with full tanks (130 gal) can carry 720 lbs inside or take off with 4 hrs fuel(92 gal) and put almost 950 lbs inside.
If you buy a 310 a prebuy is important and one area really needs extra attention so pm me for more info.

 

[FN FAL]

go to www.planequest.com and compare operating cost per mile of 210 vs. 310. not that much difference plus faster speeds rack up less hours while running engines easier (63-65 percent) and moves the fuel away from the passengers.My 310C model has a useful load of 1500 lbs so with full tanks (130 gal) can carry 720 lbs inside or take off with 4 hrs fuel(92 gal) and put almost 950 lbs inside.
If you buy a 310 a prebuy is important and one area really needs extra attention so pm me for more info.

All the fuel consumed by both the engines of a 310 must pass through the cabin before being sent outboard again to be processed by the engines. Fuel in a 210 is in the wings as well and must also come into the cabin before being processed by the engine. So mathematically, you are twice as much at risk of having a fuel failure causing fuel in the cabin with a twin, as you are with a single.

 

[rumpletumbler]

Richard (Dick) Collins has a pitot-static, vacumn system, backup vacumn system, electrial system failure on every IFR flight. Perhaps he could bring his considerable experience to bear on the topic.

 

[vetteracer]

I have around 1300 hours in a Bonanza, a few in a 210 and tons of 310-402 time. Pound per Pound the Bonanza Boat wins hands down. Here is my take.

V35B/A36 VS T210. About the same accusation cost. Same motor etc. The 210 would be better in short field poor airstrip performance. The V35B/A36 cruise is a tad faster, not enough to be a deal breaker. The Bonanza is a very stable IFR platform as is the T210. The non-Turbo 210 did not perform near as well as the Bonanza. The Bonanza is easily loaded aft of CG as the 210 is fairly forgiving were load is concerned. ICE effected the 210 more then the Bonanza. The Bonanza will haul a ton of ICE and still be very stable. The turbo charger is not worth the maintenance costs unless you live in a high altitude part of the county. Neither is worth a darn with 6 adults.

Here are the stats for the 310 and the V35B.



V35B

Empty Weight = 2205

Max Take Off Weight = 3400

Useful Load = 1195

Plus 80 gal. (4 hrs) = -480

Useful/full fuel = 715lbs.

4 persons @175lbs = 4 persons.



C-310R

Empty Weight = 3810

Max Take Off Weight = 5500

Useful Load = 1690

Plus 160 Gal. (4 hrs) = - 960

Useful + full fuel = 730 lbs.

4 persons @175lbs. = 4 persons.



And from experience, with max load, and full fuel, an engine out in a 310 is not pretty, and if it is the left one, forget it.

Mark

 

[310]

Cessna 310C (1959)
IO-470 engines, 260 hp each (The R has IO-520's)
4830 max takeoff weight
1500 lbs payload
fuel capacity 130 gal usable (5.6 hours-- no reserve)
book climb SE is 430/min. mine will do around 350/min on standard day SE
I have shut down and feathered left engine at 4500 ft on a hot day and maintained altitude using 24/2450 (75%) indicating 105kt. I realize the C model was the lightest built with 260 hp/ side so maybe that is the difference.
A 310 will not maintain alt on one engine unless it is gear up/ flaps up.