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public's perception of CFI pay!!!!!

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apcooper

Dude, where's my country?
Joined
Sep 4, 2004
Posts
201
Just wanted to let y'all know at work the other day one of my co-workers and I were chatting about aviation jobs and I couldn't believe the words that came out of his mouth. "Hey Andrew, so flight instructors must make a lot of money, right?!" I almost had a heart attack and told him about how low their pay usually is! I was by no means ridiculing him and think he is really fun to hang with but it was really funny that it occured to him to ask such a loaded question while having no idea how sore a subject this is to some!!
 
apcooper said:
Just wanted to let y'all know at work the other day one of my co-workers and I were chatting about aviation jobs and I couldn't believe the words that came out of his mouth. "Hey Andrew, so flight instructors must make a lot of money, right?!" I almost had a heart attack and told him about how low their pay usually is! I was by no means ridiculing him and think he is really fun to hang with but it was really funny that it occured to him to ask such a loaded question while having no idea how sore a subject this is to some!!
The public's perception of any pilot is that he/she makes a lot of money. I currently have two students that I work with who are very senior executives at Fortune 100 companies, when they found out what I made to teach them to safely operate an aircraft they couldn't believe it. To quote one of them, "You mean to tell me that my golf pro makes twice as much as you,....I never would have imagined,..... I'm so embaressed."

Needless to say both have decided to pay me what they think my services are worth to them and not what the flight school pays me. Good people are out there, they just seem to be few and far between sometimes.
 
How many in the general public would pay "us" to fly them if they knew how little regional pilots made? We could start a private pay system aside from what that the companies steal , er uh, pay us!
 
Sadly, I wouldn't encourage ANYONE to persue a career in Aviation. It's going from bad to worse, and thise crappy regional jobs (be there) are not worth the pain as it's no better at what used to be the top (legacy airlines).

The thrill is gone, and so is the pay, benefits, work rules.....oh and the glamour for many of us! If your young, stay away from a career in aviation. There are better ways to make a (much better) living.

Than again, if you Flight Instruct for the love of aviation, there's no reason to bitch anyway....right?

Regards - wedge
 
Hey Ironwedge, who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?....
 
Frank Bama said:
Hey Ironwedge, who pissed in your Cheerios this morning?....

Hey just calling it like I see it. Sorry to bum you out (this is a forum to express opinions no?).

Anyway, for pay and work rules at the majors; it's a race to the bottom. The pattern seems to be reduce (major carrier) labor costs and benefits to regional levels (or below).

My point is, I don't see why someone with their life in front of them (that's smart enough to fly an airplane) would settle for the rapidly changing landscape. There are MUCH better ways to make the same money and have a life, family, and fun.

Sorry to bring you down, but the piloting "profession" is changing. If I were just starting my ratings with the intent to pursue flying for a living, I'd REALLY do some homework to see where the industry is headed....and it ain't pretty.

Just my opinion....I could be wrong.

Cheers - wedge
 
Ironwedge,


It does seem like you pain a gloomy picture of the industry! I am young (23) so I picture all the glamour and prestige of flying the heavies and strolling down the concourse with my uniform someday! However by the time I earn all my certificates and ratings and have a few thousand hours in 5 yrs or so, don't you think:

1) The airline industry will have recovered by looking at historic trends?

2) If at the moment I had several thousand hrs I'd rather fly with Netjets or UPS than for a major airline. The pay at the major cargo operators rivals the majors airlines and at the fracs the pay is still decent eventhough short of the majors.


When do you think the major airlines will hire again? It IS very depressing just reading the WSJ about how the Usairways pilots are taking a 30% paycut. Is this doldrum in the industry different than the crummy job market in the early 90's?

One last question. Is there a fundemental underlying problem as to why the airline industry is on life support that is under someones control from within the industry? Obviously, oil prices would not be so I can only blame the Saudi Royal Family for that! Please give me a good wack if you wish for picturing the ultimate pilot job being so exciting!
 
Ho ho ho. Yeah, a lot of the glamour is gone. Some of us never wanted to fly for the airlines anyway. And some of us are just too disgustingly involved in aviation to leave it even though we know better.

I describe CFI pay as "lunch money."
 
apcooper said:
1) The airline industry will have recovered by looking at historic trends?

No, I don't think what you are seeing now is a cyclic downturn in the industry. I think your seeing a complete re-tooling of the airline business model that treats a seat mile (cargo ton mile) as a common commodity. In this commodity the cost of current labor and benefits simply doesn't fit. Fuel prices are a catylist for accelerating the demise of a good career, although I think the pressures were there before 911.

I wouldn't worry about going to work for a major airline - why bother it's not going to pay a salary or benefit worth spending years at food stamp wages "paying your dues". Over the next two years you'll see all the major attempt to tank retirement plans, and sadly they will be successful. It costs BILLIONS to fund, and now that USAIR has been successful and UAL soon to follow, there just isn't a way for AMR, DAL, NWA to be competitive on a quarterly basis (think investment opportunity) by funding a traditional retirement.

The average UAL pilot has taken a 50% paycut in pay & benefits (oh, don't forget their former ESOP that's now worthless). UAL is coming after retirement, more money and additional work rules now. If they survive, which I think they will, you'll see AMR, CAL, DAL, and NWA follow suit.

To be sure, airlines will be profitable again, but the damage being done to the profession is such that it won't recover for a long long time, if at all.

If I were 23, I wouldn't think twice about aviation. Run don't walk, piloting airplanes for a living is shaping up to be a deadend as a career.

apcooper said:
Please give me a good wack if you wish for picturing the ultimate pilot job being so exciting!

Hmmm, flying off a carrier ain't bad.

-wedge
 
Maybe you guys should consider a career in corporate aviation. I've done quite well for myself. Like many of you, I've had to pay my dues, but it was worth it. I was a CFI for over 3 years. Then I flew 135 passenger charter in turboprops and jets. Now I'm with a Fortune 100 company. Yes, it is a different job than the airlines. I have to load bags and greet our passengers with a smile. Also, sometimes I have to wait a little longer when their meeting runs late. Thats the job. But, I get to fly leading edge equipment for a pretty good salary. Last time I looked at www.airlinepilotpay.com, I think I was making more than someone who had been flying at UAL for 8 years and I've only been with my company for 2 years.

I did do a stint at a national airline a few years back, but got furloughed after 9/11. I've been recalled several times now, but I just keep bypassing. I'd take a huge paycut to go back there now plus I'd be on reserve for who knows how long! I work an average of 13 days per month now, and mostly my schedule is known in advance.

Life is about adapting to change. The airlines have changed, for the worse. Consider something else and think outside the box.

JetPilot500
 
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JetPilot500 said:
Maybe you guys should consider a career in corporate aviation. I've done quite well for myself. Like many of you, I've had to pay my dues, but it was worth it. I was a CFI for over 3 years. Then I flew 135 passenger charter in turboprops and jets. Now I'm with a Fortune 100 company. Yes, it is a different job than the airlines. I have to load bags and greet our passengers with a smile. Also, sometimes I have to wait a little longer when their meeting runs late. Thats the job. But, I get to fly leading edge equipment for a pretty good salary. Last time I looked at www.airlinepilotpay.com, I think I was making more than someone who had been flying at UAL for 8 years and I've only been with my company for 2 years.

I did do a stint at a national airline a few years back, but got furloughed after 9/11. I've been recalled several times now, but I just keep bypassing. I'd take a huge paycut to go back there now plus I'd be on reserve for who knows how long! I work an average of 13 days per month now, and mostly my schedule is known in advance.

Life is about adapting to change. The airlines have changed, for the worse. Consider something else and think outside the box.

JetPilot500
If only it was that easy. I do agree with your last statement though.
 
Whoooa there apcooper! Are you really putting NetJets and UPS in the same sentence? With several thousand hours YOU would rather work at NutJets! Are you for real?

Sure they have some great guys and gals working there, but have you seen the pay? I make more money flying a Navajo part 91 than ANY FO (save BBJ) at NutJets. I make a little more than their first year CPT, and I would bet the farm I have better benefits.

These guys deserve more bread but thats a different argument. You might want to reconsider your options. Airlines are a commodity in a service market and a LOT of the 91 gigs aren't much better. YOU are a bus driver and WILL make LESS money than a Heavy Equipment operator for a LONG time. You had better love this playing pilot lifestyle cause it will cost ya. The majors are tanking, the regionals suck, and NetJets needs to get real on what they pay their folks.

IF you are still in school take some real estate classes and learn how to buy foreclosures and ORE's from all these broke-ass unemployed pilots and make your own fortune.

GOOD LUCK!!
 
DAS at 10/250,


I was looking at the Netjets pay on www.airlinepilotpay.com and even though the 1st year FO pay is meager, after 5 or more years as Capt it rises dramatically and after 15 yrs or so as a BBJ capt it is over 200K. This is A LOT BETTER than the majors, espically now they are going right down the toilet. So by the time I'm in my early 40's I could be pulling in that kind of dough! Anyone who thinks they would be jipped by those numbers is spoiled rotten! Even at Flight Options a 15yr capt on a Gulfstream will pull in well over 100 G's. Still not bad in my book. And of course I fergot to mention I'd be doing what I love, FLY, without the monotone schedules and routes that airline pilots fly regularly!! I will mention too that I would have the freedom to live pretty much where I want with the Fractionals which by itself is worth its weight in gold.
 
apcooper said:
DAS at 10/250,


I was looking at the Netjets pay on www.airlinepilotpay.com and even though the 1st year FO pay is meager, after 5 or more years as Capt it rises dramatically and after 15 yrs or so as a BBJ capt it is over 200K. This is A LOT BETTER than the majors, espically now they are going right down the toilet. So by the time I'm in my early 40's I could be pulling in that kind of dough! Anyone who thinks they would be jipped by those numbers is spoiled rotten! Even at Flight Options a 15yr capt on a Gulfstream will pull in well over 100 G's. Still not bad in my book. And of course I fergot to mention I'd be doing what I love, FLY, without the monotone schedules and routes that airline pilots fly regularly!! I will mention too that I would have the freedom to live pretty much where I want with the Fractionals which by itself is worth its weight in gold.


Ahhhh...to have 55 hrs again...


What do you think the chances are of "Flight Options" being in business 15 years from now?

Keep all avenues open, you never know where you will wind up in this business.
 
Ahhhh...to have 55 hrs again.
I don't think I could have said it better.

apcopper, I don't think anybody is trying to rag on you personally. But, everyone here was once thinking, 1. Cool, a 172RG! 2. 250TT!! 3. CFI, now I'm getting paid to fly! Last but no least, 4. "Center, Baron 456TP HEAVY, 6000'"

This job is pretty cool. But that doesn't do jack for quality of life. NetJet crews correct me if I am wrong, but after 5 year FO you go back to 1 YR CPT. Six years or more to break $36K? Are you sh!tting me! Airnet pays 33K year 1.

I make better than NJ CPT in a PA31! Those guys logging C560, 650XL, etc. SHOULD be depositing better than $2400/month! These guys/gals are well qualified and deserve to be paid as the pros they are. I do.

Good pay at 40? How does that pay the rent, or better yet, a mortage, vehicle payment, 401K, medical, taxes, food, cable, internet, phone, elec, water, gas, trash, beer money, wife, kids, vacation, golf, etc, get the picture? Do you really want to be poor for the next 17 years?

Words of Wisdom. I doesn't matter what you are flying. Fly a Dutchess if you have too. Quality of life is everything. Are you paid descent. Do you have good scheduling. Days off. A cool jet or King Air is worthless if you are hating life. I know plenty of King Air, Falcon, and Lear guys who want MY JOB. Yeah. A Navaslow. Not fluffing my own feathers, just look at the big picture. It is all about pay and days off. Thats it.

Good luck with all your flying. It is a cool gig. But, you did NOT find some magical profession with quick roads to fame and fortune that all of your buddies somehow missed.
 
Don't worry, I know you are not picking on me personally. From past experience in life I can relate to how you feel. When I was 16 and a newly licensed driver my Mom would ask me to make a grocery run and I would be so happy to do that! Now of course obviously I find driving tiring! Same sort of thing I'm sure for a 10,000hr pilot looking back to being a private pilot. Hopefully I will beat the odds and not be desensitised when I have 5000 hrs flying turbine equipment! Not likely though. Let me say though that while "paying my dues" while being a CFI if I could find a hot girl to date and accompany me for most flights that would actually make me enjoy the career ladder a lot more eventhough I would still make chump change!
 
DAS at 10/250,


I have always been sceptical of all the flight academies in all the magazines. What are the minimum qualifactions to get a job in their marketing department?!!!!! I agree that PFT more often than not cheapens the pilot, not to mention how gullible he looks too a lot of the time. My overall take is to enjoy the journey to the ultimate flying job, not just the destination.
 
SigAV8R said:
If only it was that easy. I do agree with your last statement though.
I never said it was easy.

One thing that got me throught the lean years was MY perception. I did not consider my time working as a CFI a job. I considered it an extension of my education, free education...in fact I was even given some money to earn that education. We all come out of college with the idea of, "Now I can go out and make a lot of money." However, in aviation, that is not true. In other careers, it is not true either. Doctors have to go to several more years of schooling after college. And they don't make the money they used to either, just ask a few. Lawyers too have to go on to Law School after college. Law School and Medical school are not cheap either.

As far as getting a great corporate job someday, it takes work. But I did it and you could too. In fact, I got 2 top notch corporate jobs in my career. There is a little luck involved, but that goes with any job. But if you set your goals and work hard in the direction of that goal, it is very achievable.

JetPilot500
 
I'll be honest here, I'm certainly not anywhere near as experienced as the vast majority of people on this board (you're not all lieing about your flight experience are you?) so I'm not likely to get a very good paying job and considering the jobs out there I have given some serious though to going into the tech industry after school. Preferably computer work in the airline industry. I figure it's a good idea at this point to have a good backup that pays well. Hell, I'm making more working as a network admin than as a CFI, and my network admin job is the lowest paying tech job I've ever had.
 
Aviation is not stable. It never has been. Globally, had it not been for government subsidies, bailouts, bankrupcies, and the military, there would be no aviation industry like there is today. It's NEVER been self-sustaining for any period of time. It fluctuates. Companies come and go.

Most of us who have been around the block more than once or twice have seen this; I don't personally know anybody doing corporate who hasn't had the pleasant experience of being given a day's notice that their job is over, that the department is being closed, that the airplanes have been sold...take your pick. I had almost two days' notice.

I've seen it happen in government service, corporate service, private service, at all levels. That it happens, and is a fact of life in the industry, is beyond discussion; it's a given.

I do believe that to discourage someone from pursuing a dream, is fruitless and very cold. Unless you plan on living someone else's life for them, let them have their choice. Is aviation gold plated, a secure future, the american dream? It's far from secure, and in many cases, the money isn't there. But a dream? You betcha.

You can't eat a dream. But I've left aviation, stopped flying, in the past, to try to scrape out a living, and was miserable. I was blessed to be able to do this, and will probably never amount to much else than an aviator, and for that, I'm very grateful. I cannot imagine my life in any other way, nor would I wan to.

I would not have met my wife and would never have had, nor known my children, without having aviation put me in the right place at the right time. My wife is gone, but there are no finer human beings in the world to me, nor no company as pleasurable or satisfying, as my children. That alone, is priceless.

I've seen sights from the confines of a cockpit that mankind has dreamed of seeing for millenia. You couldn't pay me enough to sit behind a desk and miss those sights. I've seen an eagle eye to eye in a thermal. I've looked up at pine trees and cliffs and canyons as I flew among them. I've worshipped in cathedrals made of cloud that make the most ornate of churches pale in comparison. I've looked down on earth and seen not canyons and rivers and fields, but the fingerprint of God, layed out in the same way that it shows in the decaying framework of a maple leaf in the fall...all seen from the right perspective. All priced beyond measure, but for the chance to see it.

I am not wealthy, nor do I anticipate being so. I will never drive a Jaguar or a Ferrari, nor could I afford to rent or lease time in the airplanes I'm paid to fly. Or to go the places that my passengers have me go. Or to see the sights I've been sent to see on missions I've been privileged to fly. I've been a nomad, never a saint, never educated, never much to see by social standards. But I can close my eyes at night and replay images of fields of wheat slipping beneath me, only a few feet away, the sensation of speed and oneness with my machine indelible in my mind...a sensation much like a drug. Euphoric, wonderful.

I can close my eyes and still smell the sweet scent of smoke in cockpit, or spread my arms and feel them pulled back in the slipstream of freefall. When I do I relax, the troubles of the world melt away; I'm in my "happy place."

In my dreams, my feet never touch the ground.

I'm not rich, but how blessed can I be, how understated the privilege, how fortunate I am but that for a few minutes of any given day perchance my feet really don't touch the ground, but levitate above it...suspended by millions of dollars of asthetic flowing metal and plastic. And more, I am paid to do it? I believe it was Dick Scobee that said it's a crime to be paid for doing something you love so much. He was killed shortly after in the Challenger, dying doing what he lauded in that statement. I feel the spirit of that statement; I don't believe he would change a thing at age 23, even if he saw the end in his dreams, knew what lay in store. Neither would I. I've seen the end in my own dreams, for whatever worth they may be, and see only inspiration to be all the more consumed in what I do in the time I have to do it.

Would I hold back a young 23 year old who seeks the chance to learn and grow and celebrate a dream into reality in this industry? I would not. I was that 23 year old. I was that fifteen year old in the airport fence, begging rides, washing airplanes, eeking out a solo and then a private and then...and then I'm here. I don't regret what brought me here; I thank God for it, I'm grateful for it. I would no more deny one who desires a future here than I can deny myself or who I am. I'm sorry that others can; their vision, I fear, has been destroyed if indeed it ever existed. Never the less to each his own.

For me, I say without reservation that you should pursue your dreams. No promise exists in this industry. Accept that and know that there is no future but what you craft from day to day. Millions of men, women, and children have cast their eyes skyward and yearned to fly, wished it with every ounce of soul they could muster. And then died never knowing a taste of the reality of their dreams. Millions. I find the fact that I am able to enjoy that dream immensely humbling. I find the fact that I get paid to do so overwhelming. I have for many years now.

When I first flew, after years of buiding models and paper airplanes as a child, I was always awestruck by the absence of wires or a giant hand holding me aloft. I would glance aft in flight, making a turn, looking for the massive arm that reached up to support me in thin, invisible, fluid air. But it wasn't there, and I marvelled at that wonder.

Today, I still do the same thing.

If that ever goes away, it will probably be because I'm already dead, or at least I hope so. There's far more to what I draw from this industry than a paycheck. You can take that to the bank.
 
That was inspiring, truly.

But as long as the average corporate pilot who is responsible for 5 or 10 million dollars worth of equipment (and much larger insurance policies) gets paid less than the average executive pays their Fishing Boat Captain......

I will certainly continue to educate those whose euphoria is allowing them to be swindled out of their money and their futures, only to have to rationalize their decisions around the few "rewards" left in this career. I plan to continue to do this BEFORE they find themselves in too deep. So be it if it means their DREAMS are hurt by it. I've seen the look on the face of the Ramper-turning-Pilot who can't wait to start paying-off those loans and credit cards when they finally get that first CFI job. Has ANYONE leveled with them yet?

I've heard the heartbreak from professional pilots whose wives or husbands can no longer take the stress of being married to someone who is not only gone all the time, but whose paychecks don't over the bills, much less their student loans. And there's no end of the tunnel in sight. These people could have used a bit more education from the rest of us, first. That starts with you CFI's out there. Investors are taught NOT to throw good money after bad. Pilots should be too. Be able to quit when you can't live on the meager wages today's flying jobs offer. Teach the newcomers NOT to make it OK by taking the jobs anyway.

I think we have a responsibility to educate aspiring professional pilots, or we are no better than TabExpress' Marketing Department. So, PLEASE don't shoot the messenger when the message isn't what you wanted to hear or read. Most of us had to learn these lessons the hard way, and more marriages and mortgages are being lost every day.

Personally, I have been pretty lucky. I say that because an airline bankruptcy actually SAVED my marriage and helped to create the chance to have the beautiful kids I've got. I've been able to stay ahead of my financial commitments all along. But, now that my "dues-paying" period is over, I'm still not sure how I'm going to adfford the payment on the house that my beautiful kids need to live in. This is NOT the ideal career. Not by a long shot.

It is, however, the PERFECT career for someone without responsibility to anyone but themselves. That's not realistic, though. We are not a roving band of independant pirates. We are husbands, wives, fathers and mothers - or will be one day. We NEED to socialize our successors on how important it is to be PAID to do what we do or say "HELL NO!" instead. If our predecessors had done that, our industry pay might not be the issue today.

Just my opinion, but it's becoming a pretty popular one in aviation circles. But you'd never know it by reading the advertisements and projections for pilot DEMAND and PAY. It's wrong to continue to sell a worn-out dream to people who don't have all the facts.

Don't throw away your dreams, but be sure you can create a reality with them - else they remain dream:( s forever.
 
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What are you going to do, then? March on washington, demand higher wages for pilots?

What do you think you are made of? Gold?

Good god. You're a human being. Rotting flesh, sweat, stink. You drive an airplane around. You land, you take off. What makes you think you're worth a fortune?

Compensation is what it is; it's what the market will bear. True, in the inconceivable scenario wherein all pilots, from ancient ATP's to studnets would band together to fight for higher wages, a change might miraculously occur across the board. That is not going to happen. Wages are what they are. Crying about that won't change anything.

I hold five different FAA certificates, and a few ratings to boot. I work on several sides of the house, from maintenance to piloting. I know mechanics who have left to work in automotive dealerships, and who still earn less than pilots, despite the fact that the liability to a mechanic is much higher, and the education, skill, and training is much higher than any pilot position requires. Those mechanics don't lay about whining that they need to be making more than the executives who own the equipment on which they work. They note their situation, make a decision, and go back to work.

I skydived with an individual who was senior with a particular fractional operator. He invited me to apply, told me he'd give a glowing recommendation. He gave me his password to the company web site; invited me to lurk and listen to what was being said. I did. I was disgusted; pilots whining and opining that they flew CEO's worth millions, and therefore deserved hundreds of thousands of dollars in wage for piloting around small light turbojet airplanes. I got a good laugh, after feeling sick. Who do these people think they are?

The arrogance, the haughtiness. It's pathetic.

Flying isn't the most lucrative job in the world. Wanna make money? Become a neurosurgeon. Get involved in internet technology. Sell wonderbras. Write Richard Branson and get on his show. Do something. But don't cry about what is; pilots are a dime a dozen; there are a lot of pilots, and contrary to the bantied about belief that an ATP is the equivilent to a PHd, it's not. It's a driver's license.

Don't get caught up in what it is that you're not getting.
 
Avbug hits it right on the head with both his posts... debunking two of the most common complaints I see on this board.


1. Pilots don't know what they are getting in to. Many of us do know exactly what we are getting into. I walked away from an 80K/yr job when I was 23 where I could have been making a million a year at 35 to be a flight instructor. I knew what I was doing. Until you have had a job where you hate every second of a 14 hour day.. where you are sick to your stomach on Sunday night thinking about going to work the next day.. where your travel schedule makes a pilots look easy.. until you have done these things don't preach that there are "better career paths out there"

2. Pilots deserve to be paid so much more. First and second year regional FO pay aside many pilots are quite well compensated for what they do and how much they work. Many pilots seem to have in their mind that everyone in the corporate world makes 60K/yr to start out and by age 30 are making six figures. This just isn't true. Kids straight out of college with accounting and engineering degrees are making 28K/yr.. maybe up to 70K by the time they are 30. Someone already pointed out lawyers, and even more so doctors. Doctors pay for 4 years of medical school at 50K/yr. Then they become residents and make 30K/yr. They are 6-8 years out of college before they make respectable money.. any self respecting pilot should be able to make it to a regional captain or into corporate within 8 years out of college.. and make as much as a doctor at the same stage of his career.

Quite simply the lifestyle of a pilot is DIFFERENT. Not necessarily better or worse than many other positions... just DIFFERENT. For people that like it there is nothing better, for those who don't they should recognize it and move on. The industry WILL change in coming years, but those who work hard and are willing to adapt will do just fine.

cale
 
In Delta connection academy, my paychecks were around 300 every two weeks.
Now I am salaried at 20000/ year.
Yet, I still think its a very low salary for the job. I am not even talking about the regional airlines salaries which are insulting.
But hey you have to"pay your dues".
I thought I paid them when I paid for my training.

apcooper said:
Just wanted to let y'all know at work the other day one of my co-workers and I were chatting about aviation jobs and I couldn't believe the words that came out of his mouth. "Hey Andrew, so flight instructors must make a lot of money, right?!" I almost had a heart attack and told him about how low their pay usually is! I was by no means ridiculing him and think he is really fun to hang with but it was really funny that it occured to him to ask such a loaded question while having no idea how sore a subject this is to some!!
 
Memooch,

Funny you posted that website. Just yesterday I accidently stumbled across it while looking at salaries for other occupations and thought it was LAUGHABLE. $77K/year for an instructor. Yea, maybe I'm the Pope!! Right!! How misleading! Who the hell posted that info anyway? I've read through all your posts and it is very depressing all the heartaches many pilots experience. We all need to have a beer, order pizza, watch Football and GET LAYED!!!! That will at least temporarily get us out of this negative mindset of reality. Need I say more? Probably not.
 
This discussion has been had before.. the web site defines flight instructor as the following.


[font=verdana, arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Job Description[/font]
clear.gif
[font=verdana,arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Flight Instructor[/font]:
clear.gif
[font=verdana,arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Instructs student pilots in flight procedures and techniques in ground school courses and flight training. Prepares lesson plans. Evaluates and monitors students performance. This position is typically is represented by a senior level pilot. The compensation data does NOT reflect salaries of flight instructors from smaller local flight schools who typically work on an hourly basis and consider the accumulation of airtime the highest priority in their respective careers. [/font]

They clearly got data from airline instructor pilots.. though I agree I wish they had both categories on there.

cale
 
I'm forever amazed at how many low-time pilots there are who feel qualified to tell us all "how it really is out there." I've worked a wide variety of industries. I've owned and operated my own business. I've hated and loved so many different jobs in the past 20 years that I can't begin to count. The ONLY one I've ever known that people will sell their mothers, wives and children away for is aviation. And the final word whenever a discussion of pay, benefits, seniority, managment (mismanagment), security, stability and general working conditions is debated is: "Because I love my job so much."

Come on.

Besides the venerable AVBUG (whose sentiments I respect, because they are not only personal and introspective - they have also stood the test of time), there are so few here who are experienced enough to be making these claims. Yet, so many do and with such passion. NO, the experience I mention is not measured in flight hours......It's measured in 14 hour duty days, holidays spent in hotels away from loved ones, days spent sitting at the airport or in a crashpad waiting to be called for reserve duty, wondering how you might pay some of your bills. When you do this kind of time with your crewmembers and fellow pilots, you will hear their stories: Hopes, dreams, fears. They will let you know what THEY have sacrificed to "live the dream." Nearly every time, they will look to you to tell them that it was "OK to choose their career over their (family, financial responsibility, or just their true potential). It will make them feel much better that you, too, can rationalize everything away for the privilege of LOVING YOUR JOB.

But, when the drug wears off, I promise you you'll see it differently. I know too many people who have come to that realization. It happens long after the money left over from your $80K a year job has been spent. And the memories of SLAVING at a desk job have finished eating at you. Then there will just be you and the life you have chosen. Wondering if you made the mature, responsible decisions you always tried to convince yourself you have. Or if you traded in what really matters for some PIC time.

I'm sure there are MANY out there who know what I'm talking about. I've spoken to them long and hard on this. My point is simple. If people REALLY know what they're getting themselves into, we won't have so many, so willing to do so much for so little. I'm still in this game. It's just not for the same reasons I got into it. I'm qualified to do other things and may one day return to another field. I still think it's possible to get peole educated enough to put pressure on owners and operators of the aircraft they fly to bring (average) pay in line with the level of their responsibility and training. I don't feel bad about wanting it that way. I don't feel bad telling people about my experiences and the ones I've learned from others. Even if it doesn't sound like the DREAM JOB you were sold by the flight schools and their marketing.

Sorry.

ClassG
 

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