Psa Washout??

[350DRIVER]

Any 328 drivers that can confirm or deny that this past training class of 6 people ONLY 2 passed.?? I was talking to a friend and he mentioned something along these lines that their were quite a few that washed out of this past training class.?! I am just curious because we have an Airways 57/67 guy that is furloughed and currently flying for us that said the training was very difficult and intense. Sounds like some info is not correct since I would assume that the class was alot larger in size.

Thanks

3 5 0

 

[Flex]

My class a few years ago had the same. We started with six, lost one in groundschool, and then three of the five failed the first ride. They were all retrained and flew the line. PSA is very intense on the training, more so than any place I have seen, however, this is not really a good thing. They made us memorise "centiscopes" of fuel, strange off the wall things. Some of it was good, alot wasn't. I think they have something like 26 memory items or something like that now. The CRJ had 25, the DC8 had 15. The plane I'm flying now has 11. I'm looking fowards to the day when I don't have any. I remember that PSA also did circling approaches in the simulator, and we weren't approved for circling approaches in the op specs. They told us that this was for the type rating, which none of us were getting, but when I was at other airlines, no circling approaches were required for the type ratings. The old POI at PSA, Man..., something, was somewhat of a picky guy. He wanted a "perfect" checkride for those guys getting types. Good news is once you are on line, the recurrent stuff is easy, the flying is great, not a bad regional airline if you can handle the low pay. The plane is wonderful. Upgrade...keep your fingers crossed and hit the books. Don't forget all the centiscopes.

 

[350DRIVER]

Thanks Flex- Yeah, the furloughed Airways 57/67 first officer I fly with now said the PSA training was alot more difficult than the Airways 57/67 course at Airways. Unreal.......He also mentioned that you needed to know what part of the prop heats up first and the cycle and other bizzare details about the prop assembly and heating.



3 5 0

 

[DC8Driver]

Hey Flex, who did you drive the 8 for?

 

[dorkdriver]

psa

things are changing at psa

 

[DIAMONDDD]

"How much does the rear turbine bearing weigh?"

"What color are the wires leading to the inner pads for the prop heat?"

"Umm........white?"

"NO!! They are OFF-WHITE! Get outa here, we don't need slackers here!"

 

[irapilot]

Some real interview questions I have been asked:

"If the flaps stick down, where is the control box and how do you remove it in the field?" (am not a A&P)

“We fly our own minimums into Aspen, are you a good enough pilot to do what we do to get our pax into Aspen?"

“We expect the crew to share a room on the road to save money, is that ok with you?” (for a job flying a 15 mil. a/c)

 

[tarheel87]

PSA failures unite!

My partner and I were sent home from the sim two weeks ago! What a waste of my time and their money. I can not say I flew like Chuck Yeager but I was never given the chance to take my check-ride after ten lessons. 3 1/2 years down the tubes.
Good Luck to future applicants.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Ouch!

Can we ask what happened?

 

[tarheel87]

what happened?

Well to make a long story short... at the end of Sim lesson #9 the instructor said we sucked bad!!! Ofcourse other instructors will give us a honest chance; YEA RIGHT! Lesson 10 my partner flew her worst , I was maybe OK. Sim session #11 (usually check-ride) was treated as a practice check-ride. Next day we were told to go home and call the office. Why throw away $15K worth of sim per student at the end? You would have thought we had failed a drug test. This maybe why USAIR is going under. I'm not upset just disappointed in what I thought was a good company.

 

[filejw]

Just a word to the wise.When you arrive for training or transition make sure your scan is up to speed.Most 121 programs are going to teach the a/c only.No time for IFR lessons.JW

 

[328dude]

I agree with FileJW.

Sorry it didn't work out for you or your partner Tarheel.

 

[chperplt]

Use your experience at PSA as a learning tool. Every airline has a different mindset when it comes to washing people out. Every airline has a different set of standards they wish to follow.

It may have cost the US Air group 30K in lost training, but they have to look at from a safety aspect. IF at sim lesson 11 you and your partner are not prepared for your check ride, a decision has to be made. If one more sim session would do the trick, many times you will get that additional sim session. If the person who gave you your 11th session didn't feel that was the case, it has to end somewhere.

Just because you failed out of a 121 training program doesn't mean you'll never get the opportunity again. Even in today's market, you'll get the chance. Be prepared to talk about it and don't blame PSA or the instructors. Take responsibility for lacking in whatever areas you were not proficient, and be the best at it next time.

Good luck to you!

 

[tarheel87]

Let a poor pilot buy the next round.

Thanks for the advice guys. I have accepted my performance level and I'm looking forward to Holidays with the family instead of the newly added quite room at PIT for hot reserve.
Speed is good, SHAKER is BAD.

Happy Holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[350DRIVER]

tarheel87-
Sorry to hear about what has taken place, keep the faith and chalk this up as a learning experience I guess... I am sure you will have plenty of more chances in the future. The furloughed Airways 67/57 pilot joked around with me the other day while I was on a trip with him about how ( once again ) his training at Airways was a walk in the park compared to PSA.

There was a girl who flew a twin commander (part 91) that is kept near our charter fleet and she was supposebly in a "new hire" class at PSA, by any chance was this your sim partner.?? Just curious since no one has heard about how her training was goin.??

Can you be a little more specific about what had taken place which (in your opinion) was the problem.?? Bad instructor .?
too Intense.?? What really tripped you up and in your opinion was the "most" difficult part of the training.??

How were the 10 sessions broken down at PSA and also how did your partner do with regards to being a "good" partner for you.?? After investing $15,000 I would assume they would "offer" you another opportunity to pass the final sim ride and/or IF not what was there reasoning for sending you home and not giving you another chance.??

How was the systems training at PSA and what advice would YOU pass onto someone who is going to ground school and sim training at PSA.??

I am curious since I am considering PSA "possibly" for early next year..

Once again, I am sorry to hear about your fate and outcome BUT keep your head UP since many good pilots have had there "bad" days and you will have plenty of GOOD days ahead of you in this stubborn industry,


3 5 0

 

[MLS]

If the washout rate or the way they treat you after multiple sim sessions is like you say, then the bottom line is they need to look at the way the teach.

It sounds to me like their training department is very shotty. Most airlines will go above and beyond to help you through, if you are motivated and have a good attitude. It is in their best interest to get you through. That washout rate is just plain absurd.

 

[Aviatorchic]

I understand that psa has a reputation. I went through training a few months back and agree that we did have to memorize a lot of useless information. But i do have to stick up for them when talking about 2nd chances. We had a guy who was given a bunch of extra sims ( even though his attitude sucked) and was even allowed to take his sim ride over a couple times. He never did make it through but he had more chances given than he probably deserved. So i guess decisions like that are made on an individual basis. Anyways I'm glad im at psa...good people and awesome plane....worth the work!

 

[DorkProp]

PSA training is indeed intense, but attitude goes a long way.

The subject of the two washouts in question came up recently. Now, since I do not know personally the two pilots involved, I can not say for certain that the information I am about to reproduce is true.

However, sources in the company led me to believe that the attitudes of the pilots in question had everything to do with their failure.

I will not be more specific in what I have heard since I can not verify the information. Suffice it to say that attitude is important to the PSA training department.

 

[Country Wild]

The PSA DO, I think is Rich Mandas, should talk to the DOT whom I belive is Brad Silverstein about their instructors. That sounds bad when an instructor isn't instructing you, but cutting you down constantly. just my .02 worth.

 

[Freight Dog]

When an airline has a high washout rate, I'd question its training department as well, not just the washouts.

 

[filejw]

Well how about a little of both. If the failure rate gets real high the FAA will take a look at your program.

 

[Flywspeed]

PSA Training!

Hey gentelmen,

Just thought I would add my 2 cents in on this conversation, since I am fresh off the checkride at PSA and waiting for IOE. Or Furlough which ever comes first!

I will have to agree. Ground school was not all that bad. Yes they do want you to memorize some crazy stuff, but once you do your oral then you will probably never hear that stuff again until you upgrade. Was it "7 centistokes"!

As far as sim training, I was told when I first got down to Dallas if I pasted PSA's training that I could pass pretty much anywhere. I told the instructor that every company that I have worked for said that, I dont think he liked the comment and seemed to just smile. But after about the 5th 6th session I started to realize that he was not pulling my leg. It was pretty intense and it seemed you never had time to get what you learned down pat and smooth before they where throwing something else at ya. By lesson 10 I just wanted to go home. I was not worried about the checkride and was just ready for it to be over with. Especially the people who have tha A session from 3:15 till 7:15. We had it the first few sessions and it was TORTURE!!!!!! I would have washed out also if I had to stay in that session. They should do away with that session! AND HAVING WORD SENT OUT THAT WE WERE ALL GETTING FURLOUGHED AT THE END OF DEC. DID NOT HELP MATTERS MUCH EITHER.

I will say that there are a few instructors down there that are a little rough and abbrasive, and for the new guys that are coming from CFI jobs and minimal Charter experience, I can see how it would be rough on them. I would have probably,,,,,,,,,,No, Wait, I would not have passed if I did not have some good experience in Part 121 and Part 135 flying turboprops and jets. It can be rough down there.

Anyway, I am pleased that I past the checkride and now waiting for IOE or FURLOUGH.

And Tarheel85 dont sweat it man. You will be fine, just dont give up. And if you would I would like you to PM me I have a qestion for you and your situation.

Happy Holidays
Flywspeed