PSA/ALG/PDT recent small jet proposal?

[DorkProp]

The mainline ALPA MEC hotline update for Jan. 21 mentions that they received a proposal from the MECs of PSA/ALG/PDT regarding small jets. The hotline said that the proposal was for small jets for the wholly-owned carriers with job protections for mainline pilots, etc.

He was not specific about the proposal. Nor was I aware that we were making any such proposal. The new "Unification Now" joint MEC committee of the wholly-owneds are fighting for our rights to any additional RJs in US Air colors. I think I trust our MECs to do what's best for the company.

Does anybody know what this proposal entailed? Would the wholly-owned MECs sell our jobs to mainline pilots just to get RJs on the property? I want to fly RJs and get paid RJ pay as much as anyone. I also want any additional RJs to go to us and not the contract carriers. But I don't want our RJs flown by mainline pilots unless they go to the bottom of our seniority list. I could never in a million years support any proposal or agreement that would place a mainline pilot in front of me at my airline.

Why should any of us agree to a flow-down system now when mainline rejected a flow-through in years past. I would rather fly the Dornier for Dornier pay than be displaced and sit in the right seat of and RJ with a mainline captain.

Anybody have any news?

 

[JetProp]

No news here at PDT. Only rumors and speculation. We just had new MEC/ViceMEC chairs elected and both have been directly involved with the RJNow/Unification committee. They have a pretty good handle on what the rank and file pilots at the WOs desire.

Hoping for the best, JetProp.

 

[psyops]

For the full text of the Airways offer to the code share airlines, check out "Continuing US Airways folly" in this forum. The Airways ALPA / Company offer is there in it's entirety. And man is it a LOSER! Major league looser!

 

[DASHDRIVER]

I hope they try

If this goes through I hope they have enough sense to stay away from me in our express crewrooms.

 

[DASHDRIVER]

The best thing to do

The best and really only thing that we can do as express pilots is to talk to our union reps, tell them we wont' take this. Tell them not to accept any deal that undermines our futures. Don't sit on the side lines and wait for somone else to protect your job. 1000 voices are louder than one.

 

[JetProp]

The proposal is a major loser...I not planning to sit by and quietly let this thing be ratified in its present form...Neither are some of the other guys I talk to...Dashdriver, If you have not done so, go to our ALPA site and voice your opinion on "The crew voice". Our VMEC regularly visits and posts on the site.

What me and some of my colleagues would like to see is: Have the Airways folks come here with pref interviews/hiring, but come in at the bottom-just like the rest of us. They will have jobs and then they can bid whatever base/equipment seniority will allow.

No way is it fair to have them come here and help themselves to our senority/jobs.
Regards, JetProp

 

[psyops]

Jetprop:
I don't know about the preferential interviewing thing. Airways has treated everyone "beneath" them like crap for as long as they have been in business.

I don't think the "commuter" pilots owe them anything. If nothing else, maybe it will make them think the next time they try and screw someone.

 

[JetProp]

There is no love betwen the WO's and Mainline...I've personally been treated with rudness and arrogance by a couple of their pilots...for no other reason than being a PDT pilot. The TWA pilots never..repeat..never..treated me that way-when I worked for TSA..

The deal they gave us for a "flowthrough" was 1 out of 6 interviewees came from one of the WO's.. no job guarantee, only a "preferential" interview slot..so we give them the same "preferential" treatment..1-6 interviewees at the WO's are furholed mailine folks. They're probably afraid to give DOH to PDT or ALG because many of our guys are very senior(15-20years of service).

They have kept the WO's out of the RJ ballpark for years now.. and quite frankly we're sick and tired of being sick and tired..

 

[psyops]

I also heard that the mainline Airways pukes were kind enough to waive the $75.00 application fee for the WO pilots (real big of them considering they are internal employees).

On the PDT front... is MEC Chairman Robert Pantazis still buying $300.00 bottles of wine and charging your ALPA pilot group? (A friend of mine told me about that caper.)

 

[JetProp]

Fortunately, the scandalous BP days are behind us and we have new leadership to keep us moving forward. Hopefully, into the jet age.

 

[Beavis]

Guys......for those of us at the WO's, lets stop kidding ourselves! There is NO WAY mainline management is going to place ANY jets at our carriers! This is not even a possibility. Why would they do this when they can be given the equipment on a platter by a contract carrier. The cost of buying/leasing aircraft, and paying the labor groups at our companies is astronomically higher than just welcoming 200 more airplanes supplied by TSA, Mesa and Chataqua. What we need to do is wonder....what next? What is the viability of our companies after group management has stated props need to be replaced by jets??? It IS going to be contract carriers eventually replacing our flying with their jets. Is it time to get off the boat before it sinks? What is everybody thinking? But lets stop living in this dreamworld where mainline is going to put RJ's at the wholly-owneds! IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

 

[psyops]

For your sakes... I hope that US Air starts to go tits up and sells the WOs to someone (that would be everyone) who operates regional jets. IMHO, that would be the best thing that could happen to you. US Air has done nothing but inhibit your growth, and ALPA has signed on to the SCOPE language that is strangling you.

 

[atpcliff]

Jets for the WO's

Hi!

I'm a furloughed TSA guy, so that you know where I'm coming from.

Apparently, USAir is negotiating with TSA, Chautauqua, and Mesa, to place RJs in these 3 airlines and have some of them staffed by mainline USAir. I have not heard about jets for the WO's. I heard a rumour that USAir and/or the pilot's MEC was trying to get ALL of the jets at Mesa if that would be more favorable to their pilots/mgmt.

There is, obviously, a lot of turmoil going on. I hope it gets more settled soon, and I hope I have a job to go back to at TSA. If not, I hope to get one somewhere else. Luckily, I'm elligible for the Guard/Reserve, and will get a flying slot if I pass my physical.

I'm not flying now...substitute teaching and waiting. For all of you CFI's, I wish I had my CFI and could instruct on the side!

Good luck to all!

Cliff
GB,WI

 

[man-down]

Hello everyone,

I am a furloughed US Air pilot (2 years senority) and Ex-TSA pilot ( 4 years). These are some of my thoughts....

1. Main line should not be allowed to flow down and bump Captains to the right seat. I have a hard time thinking that any flow down should be allowed unless it was to fill a vacant position. If flow through is allowed (up and down) it will cost the company quite a bit of money to double train all of those people as they go down (no pun intended) and then back up. That goes for main-line and who's. A good friend of mine at COEX is a RJ Cap and being affected by flow back, although he still has his left seat for now. But at least their agreement was in effect before September and some people had benefitted from flowing up. I do not know what relationship main-line had with who's past, or even present, but I agree that TWA treated TSA like their own. I for one never saw main-line look down at who's and I would say something about it. I flew with several people at US Air who very much thought that it was wrong not to solely hire from the who's and let them bring in the fresh blood off of the streat. Granted this was a miniority, but I never wittnessed hostility or arrogance towards any WHO (I guess if that were always capital it would read easier, and show no disrespect!)

2. I would not mind getting some sort of interviewing status at WHO's, but no guarntee's and af course starting at the bottom. What would make me any better or have the right to catapault to the top of a list that has been around for decades? Besides we get back to everyone from main- line going to the same place and training costs sky rocket. I am not a company man by any means. I can not even begin to vent frustrations about USAir mgt. I do like to see things happen for a good reason and be done fairly, unfortunately we live in the real world.

3. I would let your MEC's know how you feel. I do not have much confidence in ours (LEC's a little different, PIT) but maybe yours are legit and really trying to do what is best for your group. Maybe everyone knows something that we do not, I do not know.

4. atpcliff, anyone anxious to get back to work for TSA is really sick! Seriously, working there was a blast, ONLY because of the people that you worked with. Working to make HK all of that money and not have him share much of it was not good for my blood pressure. I am sure that is similar to many experiences in the regional world.

5. I do agree with Beavis that US Air does not want to spend money to buy RJ's (SJ's) as they have been termed from the main-line MEC.

6. As far as the industry is concerned RJ's should all to go all of the main-line carriers. More jobs and better life style for you at main-line rather than AE, CoEx, TSA, MESA, ect...
Sadly ALPA (national) missed the ball on this one a decade ago.
So now we all get to argue with each other about who is going to fly these things. Just the kind of distraction that works well for any management group dealing with unions. Just remember that we all want the same thing, good rules and time off with a lot of money. I know you do not need to be reminded of that as much as main line people do ( AAA, UAL, DAL, AA CAL, ect...)

I type so slow that I can't remember if there was anything else I wanted to say.

Fly safe.

Still looking for work,
man-down

 

[skydiverdriver]

So, why don't you guys join the rjdc? We are fighting YOUR fight, you know. The first wholly owned regional was Henson, when it was purchased by the original Piedmont. When the Henson MEC went to Piedmont's to ask about the merger/fragmentation policy, they were told to forget about it or be blackballed for life.

If we get a precident that prevents ALPA from treating us differently because of aircraft size, then we will win a victory for ALL wholly owned regionals. BTW, we did ask your MEC to join us, but they said they would wait and see what happend to us.

 

[~~~^~~~]

SkyDiverDriver: My heart goes out to these guys. Their MEC's did everything they could to work the political angles within ALPA and got steamrolled anyway. Every minute that passes without adequate representation it becomes less likely that these careers will survive. By the time they wait around to "see how the RJDC's effort goes" all that will be left is a few MEC members and a committee for setting up a museum for what was their airline.

They already missed the time for being proactive - now they are in a reactive position. However, I wish them the best and we should do everything we can to help them get hired at our airlines. You have some good pilots and good ALPA members in their ranks...

 

[LearLove]

Control ?

U needs at least some aircraft (rj's) at the WO. This is so they have some control over the feed. U learned this the hard way a few years back when Ransome told U to F_ck off and went with Pan Am. Thats why they bought Suburban and Pinhead airlines (now ALG) and jetstream (now PSA). Henson came w/ Piedomnt in 87 I believe.



BTW for any of you old guys or others who really know the industry I regret to inform you that J.D. Ransome passed away a few weeks ago at his home in FL.

As far as I know every pilot that ever flew for him liked working for him and held/holds his leadership/business style in high respect. He was/is truely a pilots' pilot and will be sorely missed.