Procedure turn or no procedure turn

[avbug]

Note that while some of the codification (regulatory references) cited in the above interpretations has changed, the intent and the proceedures required never have. Further, even though these interpretations are older, they agree completely with the new language included in the change to the proceedure turn text in the AIM...that text hasn't changed anything...only clarified it.

 

[nosehair]

Particular SIAPs may prescribe a procedure turn that is mandatory, permissive, or prohibited depending on the application of criteria contained in the U.S. Standards for Terminal Instrument Approach Procedures (TERPs). Accordingly, a pilot may request ATC for authorization to deviate from a prescribed procedure turn, if it is prescribed as mandatory or, if it is prescribed as permissive, he may request an approach clearance with or without the described procedure turn.

If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.
Sincerely,

NEIL R. EISNER
NEIL R. EISNER
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations & Enforcement Division

Anybody ever see on an approach plate where a PT is mandatory, permissive, or prohibited? I haven't lately, but I seem to recall something back there a long time ago about that. Anybody?

 

[avbug]

If the proceedure turn is published, it's mandatory.

If the term "NoPt" is published, it's prohibited.

If ATC authorizes straight in where it's published, it's permissive, just as it is where no proceedure turn is depicted, but ATC authorizes a proceedure turn.

 

[100LL... Again!]

ATC can not clear you to the FAF. They can clear you to the IAF, which might be the same fix, but they are then clearing you to that fix as an IAF, not as an FAF.

You can not likely successfully recapture the inbound after a 90 degree turn at the FAF. Not smart, even if you could. (Not legal, either).

Simple rule:

If you were issued a heading to maintain until established, you ave been cleared via avector, and do nto do a PT.

If you were cleared to a fix, you fly the full approach, either via a PT (if the IAF and FAF are the same fix) or by one of the other methods of course reversal (teardrop, racetrack), or by a NoPT route (arc, transition).

The only time you may make a turn at the FAF is if it is published as such.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Also, for any particular clearance and method of getting established, a PT is never OPTIONAL.

It is either required or prohibited. There is no exception unless there are multiple IAFs and the controller gives you the option of whichever IAF you want.

 

[100LL... Again!]

No. The next sentence says:

==============================
The procedure turn or hold-in-lieu-of-PT is a required maneuver when it is depicted on the approach chart.
==============================

http://www.faa.gov/ntap/NTAP06JAN19/gen05007.htm

I hope you're not suggesting that after a flying a DME arc, I'm required to complete the PT because one is depicted.

I don't think you are saying that, but it sort of looks like you are??

 

[81Horse]

On a depicted arc, it always says "No PT," doesn't it?

 

[100LL... Again!]

On a depicted arc, it always says "No PT," doesn't it?

Almost always.

On some approaches, if no procedure turn is depicted, the arc will not say NoPT.

Sometimes it will. I have seen it both ways. The idea being that if there is no PT depicted, you would not need to be told not to do one.

What plane is in your avatar?

 

[81Horse]

On some approaches, if no procedure turn is depicted, the arc will not say NoPT.

And you wouldn't do one, because a course reversal would not be required -- and a PT is not charted.

Ehhh ... who really cares anymore? Let's talk about my avatar.

What plane is in your avatar?

Friedkin Airlines (precursor to Pacific Southwest Airlines, the original PSA), Cessna T5 "Bobcat" -- or UC78, in the military version. Commonly called the Bamboo Bomber, due to its wooden construction, and used in great numbers for multi-engine military flight training in WWII.

 

[avbug]

ATC can not clear you to the FAF.

ATC can clear you to any point in the national airspace system.

Also, for any particular clearance and method of getting established, a PT is never OPTIONAL.

Not so. Did you not read the thread?