Procedure turn inbound

[unreal]

How can you be sure that "case break" isn't actually caused by a temporary disruption of the signal(e.g.-caused by a large aircraft taxiing across the runway) or even a permanent loss of signal due to failure of ground-based or aircraft-based equipment that hasn't yet activated the failure flag circuitry logic? Do you always do a sensitivity check to ensure that a 5º OBS course change results in a ½ scale needle deflection and a 10º OBS course change results in a full-scale needle deflection?

I think you're asking for trouble descending at "case break" and no, I don't think most people do it that way. At least not professional pilots.

Well obviously there is some thought that goes into it. C'mon, I'm not stupid. If you'd like to debate me on semantics, here you go: I descend when I have case break and I've seen that the CDI needle is actually alive and moving towards center.

On second thought, in my last post, I qualified the first paragraph with the second and third.

 

[FL420]

Well obviously there is some thought that goes into it. C'mon, I'm not stupid. If you'd like to debate me on semantics, here you go: I descend when I have case break and I've seen that the CDI needle is actually alive and moving towards center.

On second thought, in my last post, I qualified the first paragraph with the second and third.

But why is it moving toward center? What if it moves toward center, you start descending, and the needle goes back to full-scale deflection OR the needle centers up and THEN the FAIL flag comes ON?

I have seen both situations more than once.

 

[unreal]

But why is it moving toward center? What if it moves toward center, you start descending, and the needle goes back to full-scale deflection OR the needle centers up and THEN the FAIL flag comes ON?

I have seen both situations more than once.

Well, in your above post you mention the sensitivity check. I actually do teach that during the VOT check. 360 with a "from" indication, then go to 350, make sure the CDI swings 10 degrees. Then go to 010, make sure it swings 10 degrees. Do the same with the "to" indication.

I'll readily admit that I don't always do a sensitivity check, though. If one had been done recently with the VOT check, then I tend to skip it assuming we're going in VMC.

 

[FL420]

How long are you gonna keep dancing around the questions?

 

[unreal]

How long are you gonna keep dancing around the questions?

Alright, we're done. Why you decided to single me out is beyond me, considering my answers were really no different than just about everyone else in the thread. Have a good one.

 

[FL420]

Alright, we're done. Why you decided to single me out is beyond me, considering my answers were really no different than just about everyone else in the thread. Have a good one.

I'm sorry if you think I singled you out and am picking on you. That was not my intention.

I just think you are not only practicing but are teaching others a practice that, in the right circumstances, could be dangerous. I tried to ask questions that would lead you and other readers to consider what could go wrong. Of course, things do tend to go wrong at the worst possible moment(e.g.-when cockpit workload goes through the overhead when the weather is crappy, fuel is tight and ATC decides to "slam dunk" you.)

I do hope you at least think about the points I tried to make.

 

[unreal]

I'm sorry if you think I singled you out and am picking on you. That was not my intention.

I just think you are not only practicing but are teaching others a practice that, in the right circumstances, could be dangerous. I tried to ask questions that would lead you and other readers to consider what could go wrong. Of course, things do tend to go wrong at the worst possible moment(e.g.-when cockpit workload goes through the overhead when the weather is crappy, fuel is tight and ATC decides to "slam dunk" you.)

I do hope you at least think about the points I tried to make.

Alright, sorry if I overreacted, but you have to see that your posts have come off as rather challenging and dismissive. If we can have a good discussion on this topic, great, I like to learn new things.

But to be perfectly honest, I don't really understand your last question. Is the needle coming in normally, then all of a sudden it fails? If it does that and I don't have any other course guidance (i.e. maybe a ground station failure), then I probably make a bolt for MSA while turning to fly the inbound heading and picking a new approach to fly. Makes sense to me, but I'm open to suggestions on that one.

What's the other situation that it could be? Being off course and getting erroneous CDI movement?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Well, to neutralize this a bit, let's say that the needle begins to swing in, but rather than at case break, we wait until 1/4 to center until we begin the descent.

It is just as conceivable that something could still be interfering with the signal casuing the needle to swing towards center even if you wait until it comes in just as in the case break example.