Problem with big schools

[daniel]

EASY EASY

Not meant to be a slam skydork (whoa horseee!). Just a reply. I personally have over 2500 hours in T-tail aircraft (including Seminole) operating a fair amount of that time off grass. There is nothing in the POH for the Seminole that prohibits grass take offs so therefore the procedure would be the same as with any other T-tail.....ie don't start with full back pressure on the yoke as you do with a conventional tail. Simply allow the aircraft to accelerate to a speed where the T-tail will "fly" then rotate from the surface and remain in ground efect until the appropriate airspeed.

 

[172driver]

I believe the reason Piper doesn't have the soft field t/o in the Seminole POH is not because of the t-tail but because of the risk of losing an engine. Do most twins have a soft field procedure listed?

Losing an engine while flying in ground effect below Vmc might not be a pretty thing. Rotating below Vmc is not recommended in general by either the FAA or the manufacturer for this reason, though I'm sure it can be done.

 

[VFR on Top]

And I would guess, perhaps someone in the military can enlighten us, that you don't graduate from the military flight school and then start teaching. You probably graduate, fly the line (or whatever you guys call it) and then later on end up an instructor.

USAF routinely assigns newly-minted pilots to IP duty; there's even a dreaded acronym for it: FAIP (First Assignment Instructor Pilot). The SUPT IP force isn't exclusively FAIPs, but they're a significant percentage.

 

[daniel]

Good input 172Driver. You are absolutely correct about the lack of soft field being addressed in multi POH's. But, as you noted, the principles still need to be considered and the pilot has to make an intelligent decision on how to operate his aircraft under the given circumstances. Just the same as if you have a soft field that is also a short field you need to combine the techniques of the two individual procedures for the best results in that case.

 

[RFtech]

I'm in a masters program and I just thought it an interesting topic.

Hey Jesco.

Where at WVU or Marshall?

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
Not to burst your bubble or perception about the "Top 5%" of Naval Aviators being selected to return to the training command. Perhaps this might be the case with the TACAIR community, but absolutely IS NOT the case in the helicopter community. The training command is where careers end or stagnate and not perpetuate to command. Look at the biographies of current and fomer Navy helo squadron C.O.s. Most had a tour as an instructor, but at the FRS (Fleet Replacement Squadron). This is where career-minded officers coming off their first operational tour are trying to go, NOT VT-6 or HT-18. This isn't a slam on the guys that go to those commands, because they are also top-notch pilots, but not generally career-minded.

Regards,

ex-Navy rotorhead

 

[JediNein]

Soft-fields in T-tails

The MEL PTS calls for soft-field landings and if the manufacturer's POH/AFH does not have a procedure, the applicant is supposed to use the one in the "Airplane Flying Handbook". Certain singles neglect to mention procedures for soft-field, too. It's a matter of what the manufacturer decided to put in the book.
Dry grass is fun, wet grass I have yet to take a liking to. Fresh snow is a blast, especially if you can look back and see twin plumes of snow blowing out behind the wheels. Ice can also be fun, ice skating in an airplane... patchy ice is not fun.

Having yet to touch the topic in a multi, is it proper procedure to rotate below Vmc and stay in ground effect? And if the airplane yaws, is it a chop-n-stop? How high do instructors let the students climb above the runway in this case (2", 6", 1')?

Thanks!
Jedi Nein

 

[skydork]

Good point about the Vmc

I'm not sure on other twins, but as far as the seminole, VMC is below Vs

 

[172driver]

The MEL PTS calls for soft-field landings and if the manufacturer's POH/AFH does not have a procedure, the applicant is supposed to use the one in the "Airplane Flying Handbook".

The MEL PTS calls for no such thing, either for commercial or private. Again, there is a reason the manufacturer and the FAA do not mention the soft field technique. I don't believe the AFH mentions such a thing for twins either. Just try and hold the nose up in a twin while landing. The longer you hold it, the harder it falls...not a good thing on a soft field.

Can a twin be flown on a soft field...obviously. Is it the same procedure as published in the AFH for singles...probably not. Is it safe to lift off below Vmc...yes, as long as the engines continue to run. Is that a risk you're comfortable with? Definitely not for me on a daily basis with students at the controls.

 

[JediNein]

Hmmm.. Rough water takeoff certainly is not a soft field takeoff. It also explains why I haven't seen the topic in training. Back to the books for me. :rollseyes:

Thanks 172Driver!

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein