Private Training in an SR-22

[BradG]

Anyone done any training in a Cirrus SR22? I am supposed to start flying with a guy in one. He has 25hrs total, and has soloed in a 172. He wants to finish in the Cirrus. Anyone got any suggestions? Hints? Tips? Anything? I've never flown one, so im not sure what to expect. Im supposed to fly with their company pilot in the plane sometime soon, then we will start training. The only thing that concerns me is the 310hp. Thats a lot to start a primary student with. But hey........if it only had 160 then it wouldnt be as exiting i suppose.

 

[JBHewlett]

Wow

SR 22 is kind of a powerful aircraft for training. I think they cruise about 180kts. I would with a doubt get some time in the aircraft doing stalls and such, just so you will know what to expect, when it comes checkride time, and you are doing your reviews.

I do have one suggestion. Keep your hand away from the Parachute. You heard what happened to the guy in Lexington KY right? He tried to pop the chute and it wouldn't go, so he landed in a field. Seems like the chute popped on the ground.

Have a great time,
J.

 

[MSNFlier]

flat spins???

You should read Richard Collins article in this month's Flying magazine regarding a recent crash of a Cirrus aircraft (don't recall right off hand whether it was a -20 or a -22 - don't think there's much difference between them other than engine size). Witnesses and crash scene evidence apparently supports the theory that the pilot was doing some air work (slow flight, approach and take off stalls) and the plane somehow got into a flat spin which the pilot was unable to recover from, resulting in two fatalities.

Please don't read anything more into the preceding other than a brief summary of what I can recall from the magazine article. Cirrus was started at the airport (DLL - Baraboo-Wisconsin Dells) I did a lot of touch-n-goes at during my flight training for my PPC. I was very bummed to hear the county and state didn't do much to try to keep them there when they were looking for a deal on some land and other incentive help. The company took its vision and jobs to Duluth, MN.

Fly safe!!!

 

[310]

andymsn is right- do not do full stalls until this is sorted out.

 

[JBHewlett]

I am sorry

I very much agree with 310. I am sorry I said that about the stalls. I read the article in Flying by Collins last week. Very very disturbing to say the least. I wouldn't do full stalls in it if I were you Brad.

J.

PS - 310, very good tip!

 

[Timebuilder]

Sounds like good advice, my friend.

 

[Vik]

I would never sign off a student for solo in a complex or high performance airplane unless they could show me proficiency at the level of a private pilot.

Remember, it is your ticket on the line! 310hp is enough to make a hole in the ground half way to China.

I realize he has already solo'd and someone else signed him off in that airplane, but you take on responsibility when you start giving him dual instruction.

 

[jetdriven]

not to mention his 3 hour private cross country will cover six states!
Also, why did the flat spin kill two people in the cirrus? Did they not activate the parachute? No way I would do full stalls that plane. "Clean" aircraft with good wing loading like the bonanza, mooney, and others usually have a more abrupt stall with a clean break and a wing drop than your typical trainers. It might take a student (or an instructor) by surprise.

 

[Mickey]

I taught in Bonanzas and Mooneys and thought the Bonanza's full stall was a little exciting but not too bad. The Mooney didn't excite as much as the Bonanza. Bonanza roll real easy and this probably has something to do with it.

I have friend who has a SR20 and the insurance required him and his instructor to have specific training from a company instructor before they could proceed with each other. He already had his private and was working on his instrument.

A different guy at the airport did his private in an SR20 a year ago with the same instructor and the same insurance company and they didn't have this requirement. From what I understand the insurance companies have started to get tougher on higher performance aircraft being used for training.

 

[JBHewlett]

Irony at its best

Hey Mick,

Whats up with people who fly Bonanza's and the name "Mickey". My Instructor who was helped me learn how to fly a bonanza's name was "Mickey" and not only that the guy who owns the Bonanzas first name is Mickey. Two different folks. Both fly the airplane. One is "Owner/Pilot Mickey", the other is "CFI/personal pilot Mickey". Pretty wild.

J.

 

[MetroSheriff]

310hp is enough to make a hole in the ground half way to China.

I am not a physicist, however, I would hazard a guess that a spinning SR22 (or whatever 310 hp a/c) doesn't hit the ground any harder than a spinning 152.

A 747 makes a mighty big hole, but your just as dead in the bug smasher. It just looks worse on CNN.

Fly Safe.

 

[propilot]

The stall issue may be a factor if there seems to be a possible flaw in the recovery, but the 310hp is not that big of a deal. I teach primary in an A36 with no problems. We simply require a few more hours to solo than the normal student. It's an old civilian mentality that needs to be dealt with. What ever you learn in you will be comfortable in. If you started in a 150, then I suppose you might find a SR22 a bit of a challenge, if you start in the SR22, you'll never give it a second thought.

 

[zoom]

Not True...

PatMack18 wrote...
And as far as the HP.. the AF start's their students off in jets and the Navy in 550hp turbo props... I think you can handle teaching this guy in 300 hp.


Just for the record, The Air Force does not start out their pilots in jets. They all get their PPLs in Cessnas and Pipers first.

After that, they THEN go to UPT in jets.


zoom

 

[BradG]

Was the Article in FLying in the August or Sept. issue? I am supposed to fly with the company that owns the airplane's pilot Thursday morn. for a checkout in the airplane and i have been goin thru the POH. THanks for all the replies

 

[T1bubba]

Quick clarification- the Air Force doesn't start their own folks in jets currently, but they do start the Navy and Marine students in jets.

Anyway, I agree that learning in something that's faster/more powerful isn't necessarily a bad thing. But only when the instructor is thoroughly familiar with the aircraft. If all you're getting is a "checkout" in the aircraft, I'd stick with what you know. Flying a student around the pattern is no time to be finding out the quirks of the aircraft yourself. You should be extremely comfortable in any aircraft you're going to instruct in.

I got to tour the Cirrus factory in Duluth, it's very impressive. I'd love to get a chance to take an SR-22 for a spin!

Good luck.

T1bubba

 

[310]

The Hp is not the issue. It is the possibility that the Cirrus has a problem with entering a flat spin as in Richard Collins article in the most recent Flying Mag.

 

[T1bubba]

It's the JSUPT guys I was talking about. Navy folks get no introductory flight training regardless of whether they're going to fly T-34's or T-37's, Air Force folks get IFT regardless of where they end up.

The point was that some people still learn to fly in a jet from day one.

T1bubba

 

[Flyer7SA]

Not a good trainer SR-22

I have flown the Cirus and have said time and again that it is not a good training aircraft. As a flight instructor, I have flown with several pilots who learned how to fly in the Cirus and there is a remarkable difference between those pilots and ones who learned on something that made you work for your rating. I will give the Cirus some credit - I like the way it flies and the responsiveness, just not the landing characteristics for beginning pilots. Learning in a 152 or 172 you have to fly it to the ground and then learn how to level out and then flare. Even more, I wish that people still learned in tail draggers. If you can land some taildraggers in a X-wind, then you can land anything. As far as someone not learning in a HP/ Complex, I am mixed on that issue. The T-28 was a good training aircraft and it was over 16,000 lbs and very complex. Any instructor worth his / her salt will not let you solo until you are ready, no matter what you are flying in.


The Cirus is good if you have some time under your belt, understanding the whole pitch, power, performance concept that you learned in a 152 or 172. Personally, I'm going to leave those aircraft to executives who want to get down to the beach with their golf clubs as fast as possible. Tell you what I would suggest, find some salty old flight instructor in sleepy old airport and you won't regret the experience. If you can learn how to fly in a Cub or something with a conventional gear, then better on you, though good luck finding that these days. One thing also, you shouldn't be in a hurry to get all of your ratings done. I know furloughed pilots who would do anything to have my flight instructing job. Take your time and become an apprentice to the craft.

~Flyer7SA

 

[dorkdriver]

cirrus training

One of my students is either going to buy a cirrus or a c182. We flew both planes and he loves the cirrus and I the 182. He is asking for advice on what to buy and i keep telling him he should buy the 182 to get his private and instrument ratings in. We are discussing the issue and he still wants the cirrus. What should he buy as a 15 hour private student?

 

[JimNtexas]

He ought to solo in a Cub and then get his PPL in a C-172, PA-28 or similar aircraft.

The cost of rentiing (and tearing up) a trainer is tiny compared to the cost of a high performance single. Learn in a simple airplane, then transisition to his own plane.

He ought to price insurance for the Cirrus and C-182, He may find he the Cirrus costs a lot more to insure. In the end they are both good airplanes.

It's his money, if he likes the Cirrus that's what he should get.