Preferential Treatment?

[Gator1999]

Would any of you agree that airlines get preferential treatment in their bases and likewise airlines operating in a competitors hub airport seem to get all the speed reductions and headings for spacing? Are there some approach controllers more than others that seem to repeatedly give priority handling to their home carriers than to others? If so, where and what are your stories?

 

[cl-65link]

Come up to MSP, everyone gets hosed here, especially in the evening on a weeknight.

 

[Rogue5]

The classic story:

The three most common things heard on SoCal Approach:

1) "Southwest, I need you to slow down."

2) "United, I don't have time to argue this with you, Ma'am."

3) "Good job SkyWest, thanks for your help. Contact Tower."

I may be a bit partial...

 

[Mongolikecandy]

Ever flown into ATL?

 

[Gator1999]

Thanks for answering...
I would have to agree with CL that MSP is a cluster and everyone gets the shaft there. ATL has great controllers and have never had a problem there. MEM controllers don't seem to know what speed they want or need and after they reassign runways 3 times, my head starts spinning after all the briefs that I have to give. (It also doesn't sound good when the supervisor has to key up the mic and fix the mess that the trainee has made.) NY and DTW seem to be the best and most efficient controllers that are out there that I have found.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: The classic story:

3) "Good job SkyWest, thanks for your help. Contact Tower."

I may be a bit partial...

4) "Smooch, smooch, smooch...!" (Sound of Skypest repeatedly sucking up to ATC to get direct the airport, the south side at LAX, visual approach clearance from 80 miles away, etc...)

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Tony Soprano]

Don't forget PIT

PIT is on the Top 5....

Never slow ya down....rarely hold ya and let ya keep truckin on in at 250.

Best things heard on radio by PIT controllers...

1. USAir 1 your'e 51 miles SE of PIT cleared for the visual approach to the runway of your choice and speed your decretion, the Dornier 3 miles ahead of ya is landing 32 by the way.

2. Blue Streak 2422 cleared to land on 32 however you can circle to 28L or 28C and roll it down to Whiskey as long as you let the 737 in front of you land first.

3. Colgan 5063 turn left to 190 and contact departure, CCEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

 

[crashpad]

What's really fun to watch is when an LCC and it's competitor have the same hub. The legacy carriers seem to get hosed from many directions.

 

[Gator1999]

PIT, good call...I forgot about them...they kick a$$.

For all of us that aren't lucky enough to fly in the Pacific time zone...what's LAX and SFO bay approach like? How about SEA and LAS?

 

[English]

Re: Re: The classic story:

4) "Smooch, smooch, smooch...!" (Sound of Skypest repeatedly sucking up to ATC to get direct the airport, the south side at LAX, visual approach clearance from 80 miles away, etc...)

HA! So true...


5) the sound of Eagle being vectored away to make room for SkyWest, most favored child status and all...

 

[Saabslime]

Colgan 5063 turn left to 190 and contact departure, CCEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Hey now......that's Mesaba's signature sign-off.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: Re: Re: The classic story:

HA! So true...


5) the sound of Eagle being vectored away to make room for SkyWest, most favored child status and all...

Exactly. Oh, the number of times I have had ATC slow me down by 40 or 50 knots to make way for a Brazilia at 6:00 and 5 miles with a 15 knot overtake.....

LAXSaabdude

 

[English]

And I though everyone had to do 250 below 10,000 feet?

Always surprises me how SkyWest's 250 is always more like 270...

 

[LAXSaabdude]

And I though everyone had to do 250 below 10,000 feet?

Always surprises me how SkyWest's 250 is always more like 270...

Reminds me of one time we were going in to MRY, descending at 250, Skypest checked in just behind us bugging the controller to let them pass us. MRY approach asked us our speed, we said 250.

At that point, Skypest actually tried to convince the controller to shift us over to 28R!! (Something like 3000' long). I couldn't believe it, but MRY actually entertained the idea, and asked us if we were able the Right. FO didn't miss a beat, and said, "No, but they're welcome to try it if they really want to!"

They declined, but I'm kinda surprised that they didn't actually give it a shot. Precious seconds and all.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[English]

Actually racing to make less money...I don't get it....

 

[Rogue5]

Differences of Philosophy...

I will repost this from an earlier thread to explain:

"Ya know, I met an Eagle guy at a wedding and he hit me up with essentially the same question: "You guys are number one on time each month, I mean, you get paid by the hour... Why don't you pull the power levers back?"

It really hit me how totally screwed up labor relations are in this industry.

The way I look at it is:

1) we get paid the best of historic or actual, and historic (what with weather, Mx, whatever other delays figured in) tends to be significantly longer than what it takes to complete a flight on a normal day. To make any more would require me to significantly drag my ass.

2) I am essentially a lazy pilot: It's easy and it keeps me from killing myself by trying to get too fancy. The hard stuff is the up and down, the quick turn, etc. WAY too stressful. Cruise is easy livin'. If I can smoke the enroute to give me a little extra time to relax on the ground, go get that chili in MRY, talk to the cute little ramper girl in LAX (yes, they exist) then hell, my quality of life on an hour to hour basis is better, and thus my days, weeks and years.

3) Yes I know it sounds lame but everyone I've met takes pride in what they do. It is a sign of professionalism. Taking care of the customer. Thinking about 30 people with their lives and families and places to go and things to do. You said you would take them from here to here on time and safely. You do it. The company makes money and grows, you move up and are compensated accordingly (this last point needs to be addressed with the much anticipated upcoming TA. Every month we get kudos from management re: #1 on time, and almost all expect them to put their money where their mouth is or else tip the scales against themselves).

Not that life is perfect but there still is a lot of goodwill here between labor and managment. This is still a good company in the sense of people working diligently together to make something happen. I hope that vibe will continue..."

 

[English]

Hey Rogue,

How is making ill-will with Eagle pilots and suggesting they get out of your way "a sign of professionalism", as you call it?

I don't see how racing enhances safety. I also don't see how suggesting Eagle take 28R at MRY so that SkyWest can land one minute earlier enhances safety, or goodwill. The chili there is not THAT good.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: Differences of Philosophy...

I am essentially a lazy pilot: It's easy and it keeps me from killing myself by trying to get too fancy.

I don't know how you fly personally, so if this doen't apply to you, my apologies.

The thing is, if the Brazilia was truly a blistering fast machine, it could blow right past the Saab, and we would never know the difference, nor care. The problem is, it really only has a very minimal speed advantage. I think I read somewhere it's only like 15 knots. So instead of just slowing down very slightly, I keep seeing your guys pull every cheesy stunt in the book to try to convince ATC to get us out of the way. To me, that sounds like a lot more work for minimal gain than it's worth.

I'm kinda lazy myself, I'd rather not spend all that energy trying to concoct ways to try to screw everyone else in the airspace.

The hard stuff is the up and down, the quick turn, etc. WAY too stressful. Cruise is easy livin'.

For some reason it seems that the wackiest stunts and most outrageous requests are usually in the terminal area.

LAXSaabdude

 

[Rogue5]

First off let me say I wish no ill will on any pilots of any airline out there: we are indeed all on the same team.

Second, it is absurd for one of our pilots to suggest you land on the little runway in MRY. 'Nuff said.

Third, it would be a severe lack of professionalism for any one to suggest to ATC for you to move out of our way. I know that the aerodynamics of the Brozilla allow us to get a bit of an edge. Usually we fly normally (read: company SOP climb profile with resprect to torque and airspeeds), and hopefully ATC will do the rest. Managing aircraft flow is their job. Climbing out of LAX on the Gorman4 I see ATC regularly turn you guys in early to rejoin the departure (saving you unnecessary off-course vectoring) while we take the long route outside and above. The Brasilia just gets us there faster.

Anything that any pilot has said or done that is not professional, I have no justification for, nor would I ever excuse or ever want to be a part of. That being said, I have never seen or heard such a thing. What we DO do is ride our planes like they can be ridden. Perhaps its only 15 knots in cruise but it is also a matter of rate of climb and ability to slow down. We watch all the time the blips on the TCAS and compare relative performance.

As far as the cheesy stunts in the terminal area, it may be more work but god it sure is fun. You ever hear Southwest on the radio as the Non-Flying Pilot keys the radio to acknowledge some unusual request that they would only ask Southwest to do, only to hear the other pilot in the background shout "Woo-ho!"? THAT is why I started flying airplanes: because I love it.

By the way, the chili on MRY is that good. Don't you guys rate your days by the quality of the food at the airports you fly into?

Above all, take it easy, - R5

 

[bogberto]

Re: Don't forget PIT

CCEEEEEEEEEEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Ahhh yeah Diamond Jim is THE ultimate controller. Two turns at the most to any final, always in a good mood. He should train controllers.

Are the Eagle folks in L.A. tired of we Air Shuttlers begging for the South side yet?