Pre-mature Flapulation....

[7dustfan]

I'm sick of flying with Captains who prematurely put their hand on the flap lever well before you plan on calling for flaps, as if to que you to slow or you need flaps..... Douche Bags-all of them! "Premature Flapulators" is what I like to think of them as. You all know who you are.

 

[ASAFOE120]

I'm with ya man. I hated it when I would get stuck with some ding-dong who thought he was Yeager or something. Allways reaching for the dang ole flap lever when ATC told you to keep your speed up, 20 miles out, GS hadn't even started to budge yet.
Now that i finally upgraded, I can promise that I will never, ever do that to one of my FO's. EVER!!! Whats the problem with asking "hey man, you want some flaps?"?

Whatever, just my $.02

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I'm with ya man. I hated it when I would get stuck with some ding-dong who thought he was Yeager or something. Allways reaching for the dang ole flap lever when ATC told you to keep your speed up, 20 miles out, GS hadn't even started to budge yet.
Now that i finally upgraded, I can promise that I will never, ever do that to one of my FO's. EVER!!! Whats the problem with asking "hey man, you want some flaps?"?

Whatever, just my $.02

I usually will say a friendly joke about being over-eager and then call for Gear just to get them to move their hand. But I'm crazy like that I guess.:nuts:

 

[The Drizzle]

____________________

 

[wheelsup]

I'm sick of flying with Captains who prematurely put their hand on the flap lever well before you plan on calling for flaps, as if to que you to slow or you need flaps..... Douche Bags-all of them! "Premature Flapulators" is what I like to think of them as. You all know who you are.

It's funny you say that, as a brand spanking new (now just new) FO I would sometimes put my hand there, but it was never to imply anything. I just had it nearby because I knew the CA was going to call for flaps any second. I guess I never thought about it being taken the other way though...good point though. Hopefully I didn't offend any of them .

~wheelsup

 

[NEDude]

You guys will get a different perspective when your ticket is on the line in the left seat. Most likely if the captain is putting their hand there they could be unsure, and thus uncomfortable, about what your game plan is. Keep them in the loop if you like to like to wait a bit to put flaps in, are planning on making a short approach, widening it out, keeping it fast to the marker etc. For most captains, just telling us what your game plan is will suffice. (I guess I shouldn't use the term 'us' anymore -I am back in the right seat now).

 

[wmuflyguy]

I don't get bent out of shape when a CA does that. I keep flying the plane how I see fit. Some people just do it, cause they think your about to call for them.

Just relac and don't let it get to you. Anyways, He/She is the CA if they want you to slow down or do soemting and it is within reason, you should comply.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Yeah, I love doing the paperwork on the GO AROUND that some cocky FO or Capt. caused because he thought he would show me that he is Chuck Jr. I love doing the carpet dance in the CP's office explaining why I didn't prevent the waste of fuel, time, etc...that the extra approach caused. It's my way of saying "I'm not comfortable" with how the approach is going. If you don't like it go back to flying single pilot frieght or shut up and fly the plane.

Go back to monitoring your CRJ systems, being a switch bitch, gear monkey, or whatever.

 

[mnalpha]

well heres da deal, elll capitans.
shut up because we are all sick of u guys flying sideways.. oh yea that thing there is called a rudder trim you fat a$$. My god how many times have I not said "ref, ref-5", just because I know they see it. the whole "might want to start slowing down" is getting a little old. I never say "might want to speed errr up old man, there are real aircraft behind us"

fricken jerk offs, every base has emm. the funny thing is that they think they are the shizznatch

 

[shamrock]

Yeah, I love doing the carpet dance in the CP's office explaining why I didn't prevent the waste of fuel, time, etc...that the extra approach caused.

So your saying that you've actually had to talk to a CP because you went around and had to do another approach?

I can live with someone putting their hand on the flap lever, I'll usually just call for the flaps because it isn't worth getting worked up about. It's the guys that not only put their hand on the gear lever but also put the gear down that annoy to me.

 

[L.Skywalker]

Better than his hand on your lap...

 

[Traumahawk]

We've all been there. Might be a habit and they don't even know they're doing it. Often it's because you're pushing the limits on their comfort zone.

I've come across 2 people that really pushed it to the point that I turn to them and say "Now how the HECK did you know I wanted flaps and gear 15 miles out on a straight in!?! You're a friggin' genius. You should play the lottery instead of micro mana--I mean fly."

Either that or I call for the Descent check I never asked for 15,000ft ago. That usually gives their hand something to do.

T-Hawk

 

[328dude]

I hate UMT in the cockpit. That's just as bad.

 

[WSurf]

Yeah, I love doing the paperwork on the GO AROUND that some cocky FO or Capt. caused because he thought he would show me that he is Chuck Jr. I love doing the carpet dance in the CP's office explaining why I didn't prevent the waste of fuel, time, etc

Where the hell do you work?

 

[dvmthwsvan]

I actually had a captain put the gear and flaps in and then say we need to slow. All without me saying a word. Pissed me off something fierce.

 

[pbruk]

Or captains who put the gear up on takeoff before you call for it. I loved that one.

 

[Ty Webb]

Or the Captain who put his hand on the gear lever when you call for gear, but holds off actually throwing the lever until HE would've put the gear down . . . . in this guy's case, it was usually about another 20-30 seconds.

After the second time, I said to him, "Look, I know you have 14,000 hours and I only have 3000, but do you think you could humor me and throw the gear when I ask for it, instead of waiting another 20 seconds?".

That was about the end of that. Otherwise, though, he was a decent guy.

 

[Axel]

I think we should just fire all the captains so the FO's, who are actually much better pilots, can assume their rightful place.

 

[Alchemy]

It is pretty annoying sometimes, especially for the first few degrees of flaps when you're high and still haven't had any speed reductions from ATC....although usually the only time it happens is on the final flap increment, which in our aircraft requires you to slow to nearly target speed before you can dump in, so the captain more or less knows you want the flaps "on speed" anyway.

 

[AngelKing]

I think we should just fire all the captains so the FO's, who are actually much better pilots, can assume their rightful place.

Well said Axel! For the F/Os, jwait until you are the one sitting in the left seat, knowing the responsibility of the entire flight is in your hands. Kind of changes the whole perspective.

AK

 

[WSurf]

Very true Angel! When the sh$t hits the fan hard, its funny to look over at that once cocky FO with his eyes wide open watchin your every move to get him through it. When you upgrade it can seem sometimes really lonely in that Left Seat.

The thing I hated that Captains did, beside the flaps. I am sure you guys have seen it. Its the Captains leg, you got the radios! Out of nowhere he clicks on the radio and asks ATC for a new Altitude because of the ride, or a new heading cause of weather without even asking you. ATC gives it to him and he expects you to reply back to ATC......... And when you don't he looks at you like your crazy...... Hell NO, FUC&in way was I gonna answer back ATC after he jumps in and calls them without keeping me in the loop!!! Never, ever answer ATC back for that Jackass. He will learn fast about keeping you in the loop after a few of those!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Looks like we need some maturity, CRM and relaxation.

This thread is worrying about the little things and making them big issues.

 

[labbats]

Or the Captain who put his hand on the gear lever when you call for gear, but holds off actually throwing the lever until HE would've put the gear down . . . . in this guy's case, it was usually about another 20-30 seconds.

After the second time, I said to him, "Look, I know you have 14,000 hours and I only have 3000, but do you think you could humor me and throw the gear when I ask for it, instead of waiting another 20 seconds?".

That was about the end of that. Otherwise, though, he was a decent guy.

This is the one that bothers me. I call it "The Lurker".

 

[IHateMgmt]

I think we all need to take a few deep breaths here and just relax. I have had captains do simular things as described here and guess what, its their job to make sure the airplane is operating in a safe manor. If you, in their opinion, were operating outside of that, maybe you should think about what you were doing that caused this situation in the first place... or does your inflated ego not allow this? Seriously, if the captain was out of line, try bring it up with him after the flight insteed of be a p*ssy about it and then whinning to someone else after it's all over and done with.

The captians at the airline I fly for have been great. If all the captians at your airline are really that bad, well, I guess the whole "fast upgrade" and "low mins" thing really isn't that great after all. What did you expect?

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think we should just fire all the captains so the FO's, who are actually much better pilots, can assume their rightful place.

Yeah but then guess who the a$$hole Captain is

 

[~~~^~~~]

Captains do not mean to offend. Nobody is busting their chops on a regular basis, so they get used to doing things "their way." Most of the time they are trying to be helpful. Don't be so thin skinned. It could also be that they are trying to locate the flap switch on the other side of the cockpit so they are able to monitor the approach and be ready when you want your flaps.

If the airplane goes missed they have to write the report, if the airplane busts a clearance 99% of the time the FAA only goes after their Certificate.

The CRJ is an easy single pilot airplane except for the communications. Sometimes guys get in a rut and start flying the airplane solo until a FO makes a comment that gets them back on the team.

50% of my FO's think I take the airplane too early on roll out, 50% think I wait too long. As long as everyone's peed off I guess I'm doing something right....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

50% of my FO's think I take the airplane too early on roll out, 50% think I wait too long. As long as everyone's peed off I guess I'm doing something right....

Sounds like a crew/flight briefing is in order.....

Also, do we fly to gratitify FO's ego's or do we fly to safely move pax/cargo from point A to B?

 

[BeCareful!]

Yeah, I don't know why pilots do that crap. I've read some excuses in this thread, but they are lame. Somehow because you're responsible for the flight you have to get your hand ready on the flap lever? Please, really, you're kidding, right?

I NEVER place my hands on a control before it is called for. I did fly with an FO last week whose hands where flying about all over the cockpit dialing and flipping and selecting stuff prior to being asked. Freekin' annoying and unsat. We had a little talk.....

So, Capatins-to-be, it works both ways

Teamwork is the only answer.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Sounds like a crew/flight briefing is in order.....

Also, do we fly to gratitify FO's ego's or do we fly to safely move pax/cargo from point A to B?

That sounds like rational thinking, and that sir, has no place on this forum.

 

[Ty Webb]

The CRJ is an easy single pilot airplane except for the communications...

This is wrong-headed, to say the least.

If it was a "single-pilot airplane" Bombardier would have gotten the Challenger a /SP authorization.

I am sure there were plenty of Captains who thought the 727 was really a "One Pilot/One Engineer" aircraft, and the FO was there to run the pitot heat and the radios.

We fly in a crew environment, and you'd better believe both crewmembers certificates are on the line.

My brief to the FO is "If something needs to be done (APU, Anti-ice, etc) go ahead and do it, just let me know what you are doing so we are both in the loop. Fly your legs the way you want to fly them, and let's have a good time". I have never had anyone take this as an invitation to do something against the SOP's and I haven't really had anyone make me too uncomfortable.

I don't ride the flap handle, but if I start feeling the urge to move my seat back more than two notches, I might say something like, "How about we start slowing this thing down?". That ususally works fine.