Possilbe airspace violation - NASA form

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

I doubt they even remember it happening; probably never noticed. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[ORFflyer]

question for avbug

The body of the ASRS report may not be used by the FAA for enforcement purposes, but the title line of the report, the form you get back, can. It is not protected.

Avbug:
Can you provide a source for this information? I don't doubt what you say, but it would be very nice to be able to quote something other than "an authoritative source on flightinfo.com" when sharing this information with students or other pilots. I realize that much of your FAR knowledge has been obtained from places other than books, but any citation of administrative law or NTSB rulings would be helpful.
Thanks in advance,
ORF

 

[abby_j]

here is the ASRS website that will speak about immunity. the agreement with the FAA and NASA is described in AC 00-46D.
hope this helps out.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/immunity.htm

 

[A Squared]

ORFlyer,

here's a link to an NTSB case where the NASA return receipt was used in the enforcement NTSB Order

 

[avbug]

On the question of being busted while flying incognito...

When I was flying air attack, one of my duties was escorting aircraft out of TFR's over fires. Aircraft would bust the TFR to rubberneck the fire, putting a lot of folks in jeopardy, and shutting down fire operations until the offending aircraft was out of the airspace. We regularly intercepted these aircraft and escorted them out of the TFR.

The aircraft registration was noted and passed on for enforcement action. In some cases the pilots were met at their destination after being tracked by request.

The same will certainly happen in other types of temporary airspace, too. I've seen it happen in Class B, as well.

Your best bet is to file the report; don't simply pretend it didn't happen; protect yourself by filing the report.

 

[goaliemn]

On the question of being busted while flying incognito...

When I was flying air attack, one of my duties was escorting aircraft out of TFR's over fires. Aircraft would bust the TFR to rubberneck the fire, putting a lot of folks in jeopardy, and shutting down fire operations until the offending aircraft was out of the airspace. We regularly intercepted these aircraft and escorted them out of the TFR.

The aircraft registration was noted and passed on for enforcement action. In some cases the pilots were met at their destination after being tracked by request.

The same will certainly happen in other types of temporary airspace, too. I've seen it happen in Class B, as well.

Your best bet is to file the report; don't simply pretend it didn't happen; protect yourself by filing the report.

Exactly. You are never alone no matter where you are. If they want to get your registration number, they can and will. It cost me $4.50 to send it certified return reciept. Small price for the peace of mind.

 

[goaliemn]

ORFlyer,

here's a link to an NTSB case where the NASA return receipt was used in the enforcement NTSB Order

Wow.. I am glad I talked to you guys here first and got some ideas on what to put on the reciept. I put the possible encroachment that was recommended earlier

 

[80/20]

FILE THE FORM ASAP!

Have a friend who was in a somewhat similar situation many years ago (TCA bust). He contacted ATC as soon as he discovered the mistake and ATC got his tail number.

He did not file a NASA report and got 30 days suspension.

 

[avbug]

Be aware that filing the report will NOT save you from the violation. You still get the violation, it still goes on your record. You simply don't serve the violation or pay the penalty. If it's a 90 day suspension, your record will still reflect the suspension...you just don't actually get the certificate suspended for that time period.

As for tracking the aircraft...simply getting your aircraft number isn't enough. Many times the FAA will approach a pilot and idenfity the aircraft as having been doing something illegal...buzzing, whatever. It's the pilot that hangs himself when he puts himself in the airplane. If the pilot is caught in the airplane, that's one thing...but if the FAA has an aircraft number...they have a number. Not a pilot. It's up to you to put yourself in that airplane for the FAA; it's up to you to convict yourself.

Under Administrative law, you're convicted merely by suggestion. However, where you get your say is on appeal. If you have already stipulated that you were the one flying, you've already torpedoed your appeal. Instead, if you have kept quiet and filed your report, you may get violated. In the meantime, under the protection of the ASRS, you don't serve out the violation, and you can get the violation reversed on appeal...remember, it's during the appeal that the FAA must show that you were in the aircraft. If they can't do that, chances are that you will win...unless you did something foolish to give them the evidence to convict you in appeal.

The choice is yours.

 

[goaliemn]

As for tracking the aircraft...simply getting your aircraft number isn't enough. Many times the FAA will approach a pilot and idenfity the aircraft as having been doing something illegal...buzzing, whatever. It's the pilot that hangs himself when he puts himself in the airplane. If the pilot is caught in the airplane, that's one thing...but if the FAA has an aircraft number...they have a number. Not a pilot. It's up to you to put yourself in that airplane for the FAA; it's up to you to convict yourself.

Under Administrative law, you're convicted merely by suggestion. However, where you get your say is on appeal. If you have already stipulated that you were the one flying, you've already torpedoed your appeal. Instead, if you have kept quiet and filed your report, you may get violated. In the meantime, under the protection of the ASRS, you don't serve out the violation, and you can get the violation reversed on appeal...remember, it's during the appeal that the FAA must show that you were in the aircraft. If they can't do that, chances are that you will win...unless you did something foolish to give them the evidence to convict you in appeal.

The choice is yours.

Well, the plane is owned by a club that I have a share in. I don't know how quickly they'll give my name. If I do get a notice, I'll contact AOPA legal services and see what they said. They did mention don't do anything until the appeal process.