Positive Pinnacle Numbers

[MACH-TUCK]

Nice job. Just out of curiosity though, how many junior man's were needed to make that happen?

Been at PCL for over a 1.5 years, MSP based. Never been Jm or EX...I got lucky an only had to do two days of reserve before I got a hard line...Im back to 11 days off this month, but other than that it hasn't been bad at all.

 

[TurboAWD]

MACH-TUCK,

Not bad at all....

Well, I admit that if you live in base and don't need money, your life can be OK, but consider this...

As a second year FO, you are making around 25% less than the AVERAGE RJ 2nd year FO (plus more due to crappy work rules, 401k, etc). Comparisons to AW, Xjet, etc are of course, much worse (even on the consessionary AirWilly contract)

And you have 11 days off? Your realitive seniority at virtually any other carrier would get you 14+.

Turbo

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Mach-Tuck says it "hasn't been bad at all", and you tell him that his "life can be OK" and them try to convince him why his life shouldn't be OK.

I'm sure Mach-Tuck is aware that he makes less than other regional pilots, and I'm guessing that he is aware that he will most likely upgrade faster than FO's at other regionals as well.

If I was in his position, I would be looking at the future, not just the present.

 

[Papps]

1.5years with 11 days off. wow...thats pretty rough

 

[405]

Well I thought I would be "Fair and Balanced" today. Most of the threads on 9E are 95% negative and only 5% positive. Here is one positive post on Pinnacle.

http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/060404/0121384.html

Yeah SEVEN, 9E did really well. Thanks for posting the link.

We got lucky.

 

[TedCFII]

1.5years with 11 days off. wow...thats pretty rough

Try 5 years and only 12 days off!

 

[405]

Try 5 years and only 12 days off!

Just out curiousity, how many days do you all want off?

 

[Papps]

yeah but i think he is a F/O.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Just out curiousity, how many days do you all want off?

15 would be decent QOL. If I have less than 3 days off in between trips.. there really isnt enough time to catch up on everything and recover.

 

[Papps]

Just out curiousity, how many days do you all want off?

yeah people outside of flying think 10 days off a month is alot and 15 off is like a permenant vacation. But you have two lives, one is flying and hotels and the other is everything else. People i know that have normal jobs do alot of living from 5pm until 11 or 12 at night. then start the weekend friday at 5pm. I think if most regional or major guys thought that 10 or 11 days off a month was the deal until they hit 60 they would leave the job. But im sure those same guys wouldnt have a problem pulling 8 days off in a normal job.

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

1.5years with 11 days off. wow...thats pretty rough

Yeah, he'll be upgrading in another 6 months too...that puts him at a 2 year upgrade while most other regionals are several more years after that.

No matter what people say, IF YOU LIVE AT BASE, PCL is not that bad.

 

[TurboAWD]

Oh, well the upgrade is fast...that makes it OK. Why don't we give the company what they wanted on their offer, and then we can all upgrade and life will be great.

Upgrade time goes up and down, and you can easily get stuck as an FO for years. His upgrade may or may not be so fast after the NW RFP is settled.

Non of my buisness if he's happy? Yes it is. If all of us don't try to get better, then the whole industry will go to the GJ/Mesa (and 9E not to far behind) level. In which case the "career" is not worth it. Pilots have fought long and hard for a decent lifestyle, those with SJS are making it real hard to keep it.

Turbo

 

[Papps]

Yeah its amazing what people will put up with to get new planes and upgrades. And a two year upgrade is the luck of the draw. I dont think guys off the street today will upgrade in two years, or even three.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

life is not that bad

I have been at PCL since august, never been junior manned, never been extended. Reserve did suck, but you do get to fly a lot which is good since you are new anyways. The people that diss this place on this site are always the same people over and over again, but if you talk to people on the line, its not that bad. Most say that commuting to work can be really tough, but if you live in base, its great. I have an all day trip line this month and I am home every single day. My line would suck for a commuter though. I heard from a friend at Air Wis that commuting is tough as well though so it is not just here. As far as pay goes, we are terrible 2nd year, but that will change by the end of the year, first officer rates will go up with the new contract. I am very optimistic that the contract will be done by the end of the year.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

1.5years with 11 days off. wow...thats pretty rough

This month the lines in MSP really do suck...Im flying with a 4 year captain, who of course was bumped to 11 days off. Im hoping this summer things will be back to normal, if all goes well with BIG NW. As far as my line this month Its a mix of 4 day trips 3 day trips and high speeds, not that bad considering my drive to work is only 10 minutes on the worst day, which beats 14 days off and having to cumute to god knows where.

I interviewed with XJ, AE, and PCL all within a month, I was offered the job at all three. I chose PCL because I would be able to hold MSP right after IOE, and be able to hold a line. QOL has been pretty good ever since.

So Papps, for me Its not that Rough........

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Deleted.

 

[TurboAWD]

I have been at PCL since august

Oh, well, in that case...by all means tell us why 9E is great.

Let's break it down:

Just about the worst training in the industry (improving, though)
Just about the worst FO pay
Just about the worst schedules
Assistant chief with no airline experience
Company constantly screwing up payroll
Trying to fire pilots who refuse non-contractual assignments
etc, etc, etc


I live in base too. But I've worked at another airline and know it can be better. A LOT better, even at a "regional". I got into this job first because I thought I could make a decent living and a decent QOL. Second, because I thought I would be good at it and enjoy it. While I still like flying, I could certainly live without it (and frankly, would prefer to do less than I do). Just because it may be the best (perhaps only real) job you've ever had, doesn't mean that it is OK.

4 year degree + $$$ flight training + few years working as a pilot + ATP= $17000 first year FO pay and $23000 2nd year.

Must be the new math.

Turbo

 

[blackbox]

Papps is such a 9E hater. why? I do understand that its crap what gulfstream does, but as a line pilot what can I do about it? BTW, I aint a gulfstreamer like you assume all of us are. I have only met 2 of them. EIther there are a lot of liars here or there really isnt that many (I think the real number is some where in between)

Living in base counts for so much, it increases QOL exponentially. If i lived in MSP, i would work for pinnacle or XJ, even if i got a hired by a "better" regional.

Our contract sucks. it really does. The only reason why we dont catch as much crap as Mesa is because we only fly for NW. We dont undercut other regionals and "steal" their flying.

with all that said, I havent found 9E to be that bad. a regional is a regional. I dont know if its worth giving up the seniority to move to another regional. What you might gain in work rules, might be severly negated by the loss of seniority.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

Oh, well, in that case...by all means tell us why 9E is great.

Let's break it down:

Just about the worst training in the industry (improving, though)
Just about the worst FO pay
Just about the worst schedules
Assistant chief with no airline experience
Company constantly screwing up payroll
Trying to fire pilots who refuse non-contractual assignments
etc, etc, etc


I live in base too. But I've worked at another airline and know it can be better. A LOT better, even at a "regional". I got into this job first because I thought I could make a decent living and a decent QOL. Second, because I thought I would be good at it and enjoy it. While I still like flying, I could certainly live without it (and frankly, would prefer to do less than I do). Just because it may be the best (perhaps only real) job you've ever had, doesn't mean that it is OK.

4 year degree + $$$ flight training + few years working as a pilot + ATP= $17000 first year FO pay and $23000 2nd year.

Must be the new math.

Turbo

Its funny, I don't think i ever asked for your opinion, I was just giving mine. Pay is bad right now, but it will get better, and it is def. not 17,000 for first year, I will make close to 24000 this year which is def not enough, but it is not 17,000

I will say the same thing to you that i do every pinnacle hater. In the morning, you still get up and come to work at this place when you have the option not too. Why is that if you hate it so much?

 

[Top Gum]

I have only met 2 of them. EIther there are a lot of liars here or there really isnt that many (I think the real number is some where in between)

Interesting!

I wonder what the percentage is? There were none in my class.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

On my "17K" first year salary I made over 26K.... second year I had 4 months on the second year pay rate and the rest on second year captain. I grossed over 60K. Not bad really...

It is a regional... I'm very glad I got the job here. The goal is to use the company like the stepping stone that it is.

 

[TurboAWD]

Hey, I'm not saying you are working slave labor, just treated worse and paid less than industry average. And the way the company treats people goes beyond the bad contract. Also, counting on fast upgrades does not make things OK. I just think that your expectations are too low.

As far as the pay numbers, I don't count perdeim, and if you were hired before they started paying for hotel/stipend you should really subtract the hotel costs and no pay for two months.

I'll leave as soon as I either wise up and find a new career, or get a good corporate job.

Oh, and suffering through others opinions is part of the flightinfo experience.

Turbo

 

[TedCFII]

Just out curiousity, how many days do you all want off?

Personally I'd like to see 15 days off with EVERY Weekend off! And be able to commute in on the first day, not have to use a day off to commute to motown. It can be done, it has been done in the past. Heck after I got off reserve "back in the Saab days" I was holding 15-17 days off and partial weekends.

I could probably hold 15 days off now, but I would have to work every weekend. Plus I'm spending more nights in a hotel in Detroit than I am on overnights. I do have a life outside of this place. I have 2 kids that I like to spend as much time with as I can.




"I work to live, not live to work" :erm:

 

[405]

Personally I'd like to see 15 days off with EVERY Weekend off! And be able to commute in on the first day, not have to use a day off to commute to motown. It can be done, it has been done in the past. Heck after I got off reserve "back in the Saab days" I was holding 15-17 days off and partial weekends.

I could probably hold 15 days off now, but I would have to work every weekend. Plus I'm spending more nights in a hotel in Detroit than I am on overnights. I do have a life outside of this place. I have 2 kids that I like to spend as much time with as I can.

"I work to live, not live to work" :erm:

Papps, Peanuckle and Ted, thanks for the replies. I'm not a pilot so I was curious.

Ted, I completely agree with your last statement.