Positive Great Lakes pilots

[propmonkey]

Looking for some guys who enjoy working at great lakes to share their thoughts. I am interviewing soon and thinking of signing up.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Looking for some guys who enjoy working at great lakes to share their thoughts. I am interviewing soon and thinking of signing up.

If you don't want to hear the negative sides of the story, then why do you even bother asking?

 

[Cardinal]

All is happy harmony here. We are well paid. Management is selfless, kind and generous. We are speeding our way towards a wealth-building contract. The equipment is flawless and nothing is ever MEL'd. And if you'll buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate in free. - With apologies to George Straight.

Every place has its issues, but even after a few years here I genuinely look forward to going to work each week. As far as career-building, one slice of people can't take it and leave within a year. Another slice sticks it out for the longhaul but leaves for an operation that they won't spend their career at. The other slice sticks it out and leaves for their dream job. Have an exit strategy before you come here. It should be more thoughtful than "I'll get 1000 turbine pic real soon." A logbook does not a career make.

I've posted the following boilerplate a number of times, but since nobody ever uses the search function I'll mention it again.

Lakes is a lousy company, don't get me wrong, and they always turn up new ways to suck just a little bit more. Yet at the same time you can be happy here, especially if you have few external commitments, like a family. I like it, have fun, enjoy the flying, and the airplane (of course it has it's annoyances) but go to work expecting to be screwed, and am not dissapointed. If you plan on leaving inside 15 months, they'll hunt you down for the $7500 non pro-rata training contract. As far as prorities, if you put your QOL even a little bit ahead of fast-track career progression you'll be unhappy. Where else can a sharp pilot with good timing upgrade in 8 months, and a sharp pilot with terrible timing upgrade in 14? If you don't mind an as%pounding for a few years, you'll love it. The people are great. DEN is the big base, PHX is senior on the Captain side, but fairly junior as far as FO's. 8 crews down there I think. Prepare to be cold in winter (-38 was my coldest morning), hot in the summer (paint an airplane gray, close the windows, and let it bake in the desert for a few hours), get stupid comments from pax everyday on every flight, throw bags to get out on time and make your commute, be distrusted by mgmt, be the flight attendant bitch, and get paid nothing. Count on getting junior-manned down to 10 days off per month for at least half of any given year. If that sounds like fun to you, well then come on home.

Pretty much all of the meaningful commentary I can come up with I've posted in the past, mostly here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=45343
and here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=45543
and a little bit here:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=46332
and most recently:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=49690

 

[Quiet Flight]

The only guy I know who flew at GL had some positive things to say about the place and now he flies for FedEx. Went to GL got his PIC time and got out. Said he had fun while he was there and it paid off for him. Do what makes you happy and what will help you achieve your personal goals.

Cardinal - excellent viewpoint. Realistic without being destructive. Good on ya.

 

[belchfire]

I wasn't at Lakes, but a very simular outfit. I had an exit strategy that got shot by 9-11 and the furloughs that put lots of highly qualified people on the street. Many of them get hired ahead of turboprop guys because of the swept wing and fanjet experience.

I did finally get out. Ya know what? I look back and I miss lots of the guys and gals that I worked with. Heck of a gang hanging out at the bottom of the regional industry pushing obsolete 19 seaters around for people that have a business plan that doesn't include raises, decent benifits, or any of the other things that you expect working for an "airline".

You'll have a good time if you can make your own fun and get along with the other crews, the rampers and agents. And you'll get some really good experience.

But have a really good exit strategy!

 

[propmonkey]

If you don't want to hear the negative sides of the story, then why do you even bother asking?

Plenty of dirt and bashing on Lakes out there just wanted to hear from some guys that enjoy flying there.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Plenty of dirt and bashing on Lakes out there just wanted to hear from some guys that enjoy flying there.

Then it must be a pretty crappy place to work. Sounds like you just want to hear what you want to hear.

 

[propmonkey]

Cardinal thanks for taking the time to fill me in, just what I was looking for. Hope to see you there soon!

 

[propjob27]

The only guy I know who flew at GL had some positive things to say about the place and now he flies for FedEx. Went to GL got his PIC time and got out.

Jeff Davis is a guy?!?! That explains everything!

 

[be-400xpdriver]

Fun planes, Fun people, Turbine PIC, and cold bear. Lousy schedules, Lousy pay, Lousy managment, Lousy hotel. Thats all you need to know. You are not going to make it a career, unless your name is "Q". Take the job have fun and leave as soon as you have 1000 PIC.



RICKSHAW!!!!!!!!!

 

[Quiet Flight]

1500 PIC!!! SWA now REQUIRES 1300 PIC as a minimum. Have a few friends who screwed themselves because they bailed with 1050 PIC turbine and went to other regionals to "wait it out until the dream job calls". Give yourself a little cushion and a bit more of a competitive advantage.

 

[eight8kcabpilot]

Dude don't go to Lakes unless you have 500-700TT and 50-100 Multi. If you got more time than that (and it looks like you do), hold out until you get a better job allowing a better QOL. I am a Laker and I got hired with 1100TT. If I would've waited another 3 months, I would've been getting second year FO pay at CHQ by now (whick is like 5 year captain pay at Great Lakes). Lakes has its goods and bads. If you do decide to come here, just know what you are getting yourself into. If you decide to work for us, plan on sticking it out for at least 1000 PIC, otherwise you have just wasted your time here. Good Luck

--EIght

 

[ReportCanoa]

Fun planes, Fun people, Turbine PIC, and cold bear.

I love cold bear in the summertime. So cold and cuddly. Tasty too.

 

[gt1900]

Eight8Kpilot... Or whatever it is.. Ya, Chitaqua is a real good airline huh!! I know several people who left Lakes for the greener pastures of ********************aqua, who wish they wouldn't have... Face it, if you wanna get to a major, a commuter is a commuter. I don't care if its Lakes, Commair, or Air Whiskey. If your gonna leave lakes for a commuter, at least make it a good commuter. Where your can spend the rest of your life... Horizon is the only one who comes to mind!!

PropJob... JD did not just go and get his time, he was Great Lakes for a long long time. I would be suprised if anyone left at lakes (except for Q) even knows who that is. There has been at least two guys who left for fedex from lakes in the last year though!!

Propmonkey..... Go, have fun, start drinking, and bid Telluride. Lakes is a great place to work, but a horrible company to work for. Like its been said before, if you know what your getting into, you will absolutly love it. The most fun flying, and the best pilot group there is (if you don't drink though, you might not fit in). There is something about being pissed on by the company that draws people together...... DO NOT go in with the attitude of getting 1000 PIC turbine and then leave. That was a pre 911 attitude that just doesn't work anymore. 1000 PIC Turbine isn't chit. However 2000 or 3000 PIC turbine with two types and a checkairman certificate, now that can get you someplace. Stay for the long haul (4-5 years at the most at Lakes), get both type ratings and a check airmen letter (none of that hard to get at Lakes) and then go to your dream job (or your dream jobs backup). Don't go there and bail to another commuter though. If your gonna do that, wait the extra couple of months and go strait to a shiny jet operator. PIC Turbine is PIC turbine no matter what. RJ pilots are a dime a dozen. A good turboprop guy who hand flies in the rockies and the midwest thunderstorms does real, real well in training at the majors. Oh ya, I would gladly trade in my job with 3 shiny flight attendants in the back to go back to the 1900 for the same schedules and pay I make now. You will miss the days of Lakes when you leave.

 

[psysicx]

CHQ does not have upgrades at 8 months.

 

[Crizz]

Is PHX possible out of training? What is upgrade time to hold PHX vs DEN? What are typical monthly credits/perdiem for a newhire in PHX vs DEN? What do the schedules look like for a newhire vs 6 mos vs 1 year? Are schedules commutable? Why am I asking so many questions about Lakes?

 

[eight8kcabpilot]

Crizz-
you will not be able to based at PHX right away, but it won't take long to get there. The guys in my class only spent a month or two in DEN until they were awarded PHX. It may take a little longer for you now though cause there are a lot of guys wanting it. After one year there you will be one of the most senior FO's there. However, by then you will be ready to upgrade and you will be based in DEN again for quite a while.

Oh, by the way-- I am not bashing Lakes. And nowhere in my previous reply did I say I was leaving Lakes for CHQ. I was just stating the facts. I signed a guy off for his CFII and he has now been at CHQ for a couple of months now. It is true, if I would've waited a little while longer maybe I could've gotten a job with a better QOL. All I am saying is that if you are looking for QOL, don't go to Lakes. If you are looking for the fastest track to the majors, then by all means go to Lakes. If you just want to be an awesome pilot, go to lakes.

 

[xcr600]

Ya go someplace that is known to be crappy (except crews) just because its a quick upgrade.......like that idea hasnt been played out. Put in your dues building time and go to a better place. Flame on

 

[gt1900]

XCR600.... What would you rather do? Put your dues in for 4 years at Lakes, or 6 to 7 somewhere else. You go ahead and put your dues in at the great commuter with shiny jets... But don't be pissed when the shmuck you made fun of for staying at Lakes is your captain at the major you go to.... Trust me, its gonna happen... BTW... I played out the idea, and I'm really, really glad I did. But what the hell do I know, I'm just a dumb major airline pilot!!

 

[xcr600]

Just dont trip on the bar on the way in. Before long it will be "I am just working at this major for a little bit so I can move on to that major."

 

[gt1900]

xcr......Dont take this the wrong way... But your an idiot... You keep your job flying those shiny Rj's around for substandard pay with a slow upgrade and let us low bar setters fly those POS turboprops... That way we can set that low bar at the majors!!

 

[Alchemy]

xcr......Dont take this the wrong way... But your an idiot...

Classic.

 

[Knob]

Not to flame you or anything, but at year 2 I am making more than most of the captains at great lakes. With all the overs at a good regional, I will make $40k. If I remember correctly, thats about what a 4 year CA @ lakes makes. Everybody has their own "path" to the "majors" and whatever route you take will always be the best for yourself. By the way positive lakes pilots is an oxymoron. And yes I did fly there.

 

[gt1900]

Knob....I'm not flaming you just curious.... When you left lakes, how long did you have before you were going to be able to upgrade? How long now that your somewhere else? How many years back do you think that put you from getting to a major (assuming that's what you want to do)?. And I'm not bashing, just curious....... What I get is a kick out of guys who say they make so much more money somewhere else, yet, the guys who do their time at Lakes usually get to a major so much quicker, will make that all up plus some since they get to a major quicker! I do understand the quality of life thing if your married and have kids, but othewise, I never did understand big shiny jet syndrome that so many people seem to get...... I see guys coming over to my airline all the time who are ex lakers who went to good commuters 3 and 4 years before I left lakes, and now, they are just making it to a major. Seniortity at a major or LCC is huge. Two years difference in upgrade could cost easily $100,000+ in pay and retirement, and I guarantee you, in the long run, I will have made much more than the guys who bailed ship, even though the pay and beni's sucked for a few years at Lakes.....

 

[JumpCaptain]

Heard from somebody that the training at Lakes is brutal. Any truth to that?

 

[BoilerUP]

I see guys coming over to my airline all the time who are ex lakers who went to good commuters 3 and 4 years before I left lakes, and now, they are just making it to a major.

Just curious what "your airline" is...

 

[Cardinal]

Heard from somebody that the training at Lakes is brutal. Any truth to that?

You're still responsible for a lot of knowledge in a very compressed time period, but the process has become softer lately, not much yelling going on anymore, and a higher pass rate at the upgrade level. Still lose 20% or so of the newhires.