Poor Statement

[Lead Sled]

...He actually said, "we don't de-ice as much as the airlines do, it makes the airplanes dirty, and the customers get annoyed for having been delayed". Hmmmmm...

It's probably true that non-121 operators won't de-ice as often. However, I question the judgement of a flight crew that allows "dirt" or the fear of annoying their passengers to enter into the de-ice or not question. I know that I've set on many airliners while we waited for our turn at the de-ice pad. In several cases, from my position (one of those comfy coach seats), the wings appeared to be clean, it was not snowing, the taxiways were snowpacked and the runway was clean; but they de-iced anyway. Under similar conditions, I would not have de-iced our jet - there would have been no point in doing so.

'Sled

 

[Uncle Sparky]

I've sent professor Dave an E-mail, requesting that he add a course on "aerodynamic bullying techniques and specifics" to his services. I'll let you know how it turns out?.

 

[LXJ31]

Before we destroy this guy's reputation, remember one thing: He was talking to a member of the press over the phone. This reporter is not paid to take what someone says and just meekly put it into a story, because if it is bland or otherwise not what the reporter wants to hear, its not going to make a splash and the story ends up on page R78, right underneath the used appliances want ads. They are paid to sell newspapers, and to merely be near the same zip code as the truth.

A close family member of mine is in the nuclear industry and he learned long ago that reporters A) Don't know squat about how nuclear energy is generated, distrubuted or even basic math... and B) They will flat out lie to make a story sparkle. Why do you think the newspapers print corrections in very remote portions of the paper?

 

[Daveman]

I've sent professor Dave an E-mail, requesting that he add a course on "aerodynamic bullying techniques and specifics" to his services. I'll let you know how it turns out?.

Heheheh! I've bullyed my way through a crowded pub, but never in a plane.

 

[bart]

WHat happens when you fax 10 pages of black construction paper?

 

[NewBlue]

"Bully through the ice"????????? Does the challenger have a wing similar to the Cl65? You know, the wing that maint. has to check for too much insect contamination in the summer?

 

[Guitar Guy]

I'm curious as to why a paper from CHICAGO is calling a small operator in DENVER to get a quote for a story?

In Dave's defense, there are morons in all aspects of aviation. I used to work as an aero engineer for Boeing. An acquaintance of mine was heavily invovled in the 737 rudder investigation. When Boeing did their PR/dog-n-pony show for the airlines in 1995 regarding the crashes and their analyses, one chief pilot at a major 121 operator was commenting on one of the accidents. His statement was shocking - "Those guys couldn't have stalled the wing - they were doing over 200 knots!" Makes you wonder how someone like that gets to be a chief pilot at a large airline when he doesn't even remember that load factor affects stalling speed...

 

[Uncle Sparky]

I'm curious as to why a paper from CHICAGO is calling a small operator in DENVER to get a quote for a story?

proximity to the crash site( maybe aerodynamic principles ARE different in CO and a local call to a Chicago operator wouldn't provide accurate insight ).

 

[Guitar Guy]

Sad but true

proximity to the crash site( maybe aerodynamic principles ARE different in CO and a local call to a Chicago operator wouldn't provide accurate insight ).

I guess an unknowledgeable source closer to the crash site is better than an unknowledgeable source closer to home.

 

[RS6]

Before we destroy this guy's reputation, remember one thing: He was talking to a member of the press over the phone.

HA. The heck with that. Destroy him. In fact, it should be posted daily...sent to the FAA, NBAA, the rest of the trade orgs., etc...

Based on this loosers comments, he deserves to have what ever reputation he had, flushed down the toilet. His attitued with kill more if we let him.

I myself will not loose ONE BIT of sleep should this guy NEVER broker another charter trip again...EVER.

Got that!

 

[Daveman]

Before we destroy this guy's reputation, remember one thing: He was talking to a member of the press over the phone. This reporter is not paid to take what someone says and just meekly put it into a story, because if it is bland or otherwise not what the reporter wants to hear, its not going to make a splash and the story ends up on page R78, right underneath the used appliances want ads. They are paid to sell newspapers, and to merely be near the same zip code as the truth.

A close family member of mine is in the nuclear industry and he learned long ago that reporters A) Don't know squat about how nuclear energy is generated, distrubuted or even basic math... and B) They will flat out lie to make a story sparkle. Why do you think the newspapers print corrections in very remote portions of the paper?

Let's see if he sues the paper for libel. After all, it will ruin his reputation.

 

[sleepy]

I read a story in the USA Today today that said the accident was causeed by the defective wing design on the CL-601. They said that if it had slats, they would have prevented the ice from forming on the wing. LOL media idiots!

 

[Kingairrick]

WHat happens when you fax 10 pages of black construction paper?

Actually, I saw a better idea on this site a couple of years ago.

Write, in large block letters a message to Dave, horizontally on as many pieces of paper it may take. (4 or 5 probably works best.)

Tape the pages together at the ends.

Dial Daves fax line at 8PM and hit send with the leading edge of the message inserted into the fax.

As the leading edge comes out the bottom, bend it around and tape it to the trailing edge of the message.

You have now created the endless fax from hell. Congratulations.

 

[Quimby]

The story was qouted to the LA Times as the source......I guess the Trib just did a reprint on the article. That would explain why the source (phone interview -evidently) came from somewhere west of Chicago.

 

[Flying Illini]

I read a story in the USA Today today that said the accident was causeed by the defective wing design on the CL-601. They said that if it had slats, they would have prevented the ice from forming on the wing. LOL media idiots!

But who are they (the media) getting their info from??!!??! If I am ever in a position to speak with the media, the prereq for my statement would be that I get to proof read the article before it goes to print. All the media does is scare people who are too stupid to know better. But if you didn't know anything about aviation, you would read that and say, "oh my, why are they flying an airplane with a defective wing?" Why can't the media just do a little bit of research and actually quote what their pilot-source said. (I doubt some pilot actually said that a defective wing caused this accident...although this Dave Kemper guy may be in on it....)

Aaaaarrrrggggg, it's so freakin' frustrating!!!!!!!

 

[Flywrite]

(I doubt some pilot actually said that a defective wing caused this accident...although this Dave Kemper guy may be in on it....)

Aaaaarrrrggggg, it's so freakin' frustrating!!!!!!!

But you're forgetting, the Challenger's engines are so powerful a little thing like a defective wing won't slow it down. It'll just bully on through!

 

[irapilot]

His answer to my email to him:

Thank you for your email regarding the December 1, 2004 L.A. Times article in which I was badly misquoted. I appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight as the newspaper seems disinclined to print a correction.



In addition to having owned and operated an air charter referral service for some 23 years, I myself am a pilot with nearly 8,000 hours. I hold an ATP as well as a current CFII SEL MEL. Moreover, much of my flying experience was in the east where winter operations can, at times, be severe. Therefore, I know full well what effects ice can have on any kind of aircraft be it large or small, overpowered or underpowered.



During my interview with L.A. Times staff writer David Kelly, I stated how the Challenger’s engines were powerful enough such that, if one engine quit after V1 during the take off roll, the airplane could still fly. While there clearly would be a change in performance characteristics, it would not be so dramatic that a safe lift-off could not be achieved. Once airborne, the crew could then deal with the problem. This part of the discussion had nothing to do with the subject of icing.



Separately, Mr. Kelly asked if the weight of the ice would keep the aircraft from lifting off. As a direct response to that question, I said the “weight” would not necessarily be an issue as the aircraft was more than likely a thousand pounds or more under gross. However, I did say that ice which adheres to the wings, while not primarily a weight problem, does disrupt airflow thus degenerating lift capabilities and even adding drag. Somehow the distinction between the two questions about power and icing did not get distinguished in the mind of Mr. Kelly.



As an aside, I asked Mr. Kelly if I could review what he was going to publish. He said, “No.” His reason: if he did it for me, he would have to do it for everyone. Also, he said he could not have every politician rewriting his articles. What is interesting to note is how the Associated Press and several other news organizations, including the CBS affiliate KCNC Channel 4 in Denver, all reported my remarks correctly.



As I am sure you know, there are still some puzzling aspects surrounding the incident in Montrose, Colorado. Not surprisingly, it will be months before we have a factual NTSB report to shed some light on what happened. Meanwhile, I was simply trying to satisfy the media with some known information that would aid their inexorable rush to judgment. It is impossible to keep them from doing such a thing, so I wanted to, at least, put them on a right path. That seemed to work for all but the L.A. Times and I am sorry for the confusion which resulted from their misquote.



I also regret what effect this all might have on the charter industry which, based on my years of experience, is very safe and reliable. Incidents like these usually mean we have to rebuild the levels of trust with the flying public, but I know we can do it.



Sincerely,





David W. Kempa

President, Air Denver Inc.



cc: Editor, Los Angeles Times



CHARTERS by Air Denver Inc.

Worldwide Air Charter Referral Service

Since 1981

(303) 333-3332 or (800) 333-4057, fax (303) 670-7810

To go directly to our web site, click: http://www.airdenver.com

e-mail [email protected]

 

[O-Line]

His answer to my email to him:

Thank you for your email regarding the December 1, 2004 L.A. Times article in which I was badly misquoted. I appreciate the opportunity to set the record straight as the newspaper seems disinclined to print a correction.

In addition to having owned and operated an air charter referral service for some 23 years, I myself am a pilot with nearly 8,000 hours. I hold an ATP as well as a current CFII SEL MEL......

Two points:

One, he's lying since he doesn't have an ATP (unless he got it in the last couple of months) according to the FAA database.

Two, it's very likey he got misquoted. Reporters usually hear only what they want to hear and incorporate that into their story.

 

[laser]

Illini and LXJ31 are among the few who realized that the most likely source of misinformation was the media. How many times do we see the media get it wrong? How about every **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** time they print an aviation related story!

Predictably, many others rushed to judgement against a guy and a situation they knew nothing about. I know nothing about his business and I dont know Mr Kempa, but his response was concise and is certainly believable. Of course the reporter is going to get it wrong. He's not going to have a solid understanding of aerodynamic principles after a 15 minute interview.

Lying about his ATP? You think that database is maintained accurately and completely? I doubt it.

 

[irapilot]

I did say in my email to Mr. Kempa that in regards to the media keeping your mouth shut is always the best option. I learned, the hard way too, the media industry has no real standards or responsibility to be right, fair or even accountable for what they say/quote or print. Certainly they are not going to print a retraction – they have no interest in it.

I am a cynic and can say that this all ties into the “dumbing” of America, that the public does not demand truly accurate reporting, does not want to have an in-depth analysis of current events so they get what they deserve. People generally only want to hear the point of view that reinforces what they are doing and how they are behaving currently and media adapts and conforms to this.